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Embarking on an adoption journey is a tale of love, resilience, and the complex interplay of emotions and finances. in this episode, Jessica and Brandon sit down with Lauren and James Barrett, to discuss their adoption journey. They share their deeply personal experience from deciding on adoption to handling the financial impact. Lauren opens up about her brain aneurysm, the effects such conditions have on pregnancy and family planning, and the subsequent journey through infertility treatments.
Their story is a beacon of hope, demonstrating the adaptability of the human spirit in the face of adversity, and the resilient steps one can take towards recovery and fulfillment, including the path to adoption. From open to closed adoption, cultural and ethnic considerations, and the extensive process of qualifying for adoption, this conversation covers the intricate parts of adoption. Their advice, drawn from personal triumph and tribulation, offers an invaluable guide for those contemplating this journey. Tune in to share in their continuing adventure, one that is woven with compassion, hope, and the promise of new beginnings.
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Lauren and James’s Adoption Journey
Lauren and James’s Adoption Website
Lauren and James’s Adoption Video
00:00 - Adoption Journey
04:19 - Pregnancy, Brain Aneurysm, and Adoption
17:22 - Open Adoption and Adoption Criteria
22:55 - Considerations and Process of Adoption
35:52 - Adoption Packages and Process Explained
46:44 - Adoption Considerations and Birth Mother Fundraising
For us. We've never specifically cared whether the child was biologically ours, so that's not really the big deal it was all about. You know, we want to. You know, grow our family through any means necessary. That makes financial sense for us. So you know, uh, surrogacy, when I think about it in my mind that just pops in like I feel like it pops in a uh, an economic cast that we're not really a part of and something like uh, surrogacy. I know people who paid like not no people, but I've seen prices upwards of like $75,000. And I know that's just not in any ballpark that we can swing where, you know, from the adoption standpoint, we can take a child who would not have had a home otherwise and then give them, him or her, a loving, uh, loving home.
Speaker 2:Welcome to the Sugar Daddy podcast. I'm Jessica and I'm Brandon and we're the Norwoods, a married millennial couple here to help you build wealth so you can live the life you've always dreamed of. Brandon is an award winning licensed financial planner with over 10 years of experience and millions of dollars managed for his clients all over the US. Don't worry, we leave all the intimidating finance mumbo jumbo at the door Stick with us as we demystify the realm of dollars. So it all makes sense. While giving you a glimpse into our relationship with money and each other, we are so glad you're here. Let's get started.
Speaker 3:Hey babe, what are we talking about today?
Speaker 2:I'm really excited because today we are sitting down with Lauren and James Barrett. Fun fact, I used to work with James, which is how this relationship got started, and then we got introduced to his amazing better half, Lauren in the process. Yeah, and today we are going to talk about their adoption journey as part of our finances and fertility segment. So thank you, james and Lauren, for being with us today. Thank you for having us.
Speaker 1:We're really excited.
Speaker 2:Absolutely Well, let me get into these bios, because Lauren does all the things and you guys need to know about it. James does less things, but again, that's why we're calling her the better half.
Speaker 3:We have that in common you do all the things and I do a lot less. There you go.
Speaker 1:Your back has always hurt. Oh, okay.
Speaker 2:I did it actually Same, same girl, same. So let's get into it, and then we'll get into this adoption journey, because I know our listeners want to know all about it. Lauren Barrett is a multi-passionate mom working to help all parents become their best selves and build positive relationships with their kids through mindful parenting. She has a degree in deaf education and a master's in reading education. She is a high school teacher of the deaf and hard of hearing, a cross country coach, a writer, author whose works have been featured on pop sugar, scary mommy her view from home and more Of course, she is a proud mom. James Barrett is an implementation manager in the tech space. As a career southerner with a love hate relationship with hot weather Despite sweltering summers, he enjoys baseball, game nights and cookouts. One of James's favorite pastimes is listening to different financial philosophies and constantly obsessing over his Roth IRA, 401k brokerage accounts and day trading aspirations. Lauren and James are parents to their son, henry, and have begun their adoption journey, which we are here to talk about today. So thank you again for being with us today.
Speaker 5:Thank you.
Speaker 2:So, Lauren, we know you have a unique I don't want to call it perspective, but a unique situation which has kind of been the catalyst for this adoption journey. Right, Because obviously you have Henry who is so adorable and, to my understanding, that was just a natural birth experience Right Okay. So no IVF or no infertility issues at that time.
Speaker 5:Nope, first try. Okay, all right.
Speaker 2:All right. So now you're in this adoption journey. Can you tell us why?
Speaker 5:Yeah, absolutely so. While I was pregnant with Henry I found out well, I knew that I had a brain aneurysm, but kind of we found out it was in a little bit more of a dangerous spot and that it might have grown. So I had Henry via C-section, no problem. And then I had a follow up. It's called an angiogram. It kind of takes a little bit deeper look at the aneurysm. And then that's when they determined that I would need surgery, had successful surgery but they said you cannot get pregnant Because you're on this type of medicine. We have to make sure that the aneurysm goes away. So that was about a two year wait, and then that's when we started to try to get pregnant again and we were unsuccessful. We met with infertility doctors and we both kind of have some stuff going on. So that's why we decided to adopt.
Speaker 2:So, first of all, how did you feel when you found out that you had a brain aneurysm? Like, how did you even know to get something checked out? Because isn't it that typically people are not that lucky to know that they have, that? They have one, right, yeah, so walk us through that.
Speaker 5:So my family has a family history of them. My aunt had a mini stroke, was fine, but while they were looking into the stroke, they found that she had an aneurysm. And then that's when everyone in our family got checked out. So the first time I got checked out, I didn't have any. Five years later I went to go get checked again and that's when they discovered that I had one. So I found out I had one in 2015. I never really thought much about it until I got pregnant. And I was like oh, I probably should go see somebody like a specialist, because I went in for my yearly scans and they're always like it's fine, it's fine, it's fine. But I never really talked to a neurologist and I was always kind of like wondering why I didn't wasn't talking to one. So when. I'm sure to go see one, and so yeah, so yeah. Now I just have to get yearly. Well, I'm on five years now, so every five years I have to get checked.
Speaker 3:My mom actually had three of them, oh jeez.
Speaker 2:I didn't know that was a family thing. So this is just me being ignorant. I thought it was like a fluke right, like a fluke thing, not something that oh, if you have a family history like you can get checked and monitor it, so that's really. That's a great call out, because I had no idea.
Speaker 3:No, like. The first one that comes in my mind is like, from a health insurance standpoint like how do they view that? Like, how do they view that? Like? What is the cost associated with that?
Speaker 1:Oh, because I, you know me. I mean, I I saw, yes, we do so. This actually happened the same year that we had Henry when she had the surgery. So we were already at our apocon maximum. So I was like I was pushing her do this in December, do this in December. And she did, and we had zero pay. Now when I read the actual bill was like $125,000 surgery. So I was like I'm glad she's okay, but score is, there are I had the surgery December 27.
Speaker 5:Yeah, it was Wow.
Speaker 1:When, when she got, you know the care and attention that she needed and you know, naturally, even if we weren't out of pocket, we wouldn't have paid 125K, we would have paid a portion. So it was a win-win for me.
Speaker 3:But it's always interesting to like to keep in perspective. You know, if you don't have insurance because so many people don't have insurance for you know very valid reasons. You know that they also had their control, but $125,000. Like yeah, I saw a drill.
Speaker 2:Right, it wasn't an elective procedure. You're like, oh, I want to tweak my nose a little, no shade to anybody spending money on any of that, right? But like this is like no, we have to do this. So that's it's. We had Roman in October. He had his vasectomy in December. Same thing. We were like get it on the bus, let's go.
Speaker 3:So, healthy boy, snip, snip here we go, but that doesn't count, because the vasectomy was not covered, it was an elective surgery.
Speaker 2:Which is so ridiculous.
Speaker 3:So that actually does not count.
Speaker 2:Again, insurance is a scam.
Speaker 3:I did pay for that. Yeah, such a scam.
Speaker 2:Okay, so you had the surgery. I'm so glad everything is okay. Yeah, they said not to have another baby. Was that before the surgery? Or did they also advise that after the surgery and you were like, no, we're just going to try anyway.
Speaker 5:I knew going into the surgery that I would have to wait some time before we were allowed to try again.
Speaker 2:Okay, so that's where the two year period.
Speaker 3:Yeah, correct me if I'm wrong. You were saying like the medication would have prevented you from getting pregnant. That's why they said you need to wait.
Speaker 5:Well, they said it was kind of a dangerous.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think you want to make a risk Got you.
Speaker 5:I had to have three follow up angiograms to make sure that the annual aneurysm had shrunk or disappeared. So they, while they were in the process of that, they wanted to make sure it was totally gone before I, because you know, pregnancy is stressful and I think maybe my pregnancy caused the aneurysm to grow. Because, before it was all measuring smaller and then, when they checked it during pregnancy, they had noticed that it had grown, so it could have been the pregnancy that caused it to grow.
Speaker 2:We all know pregnancy does a lot of crazy things to our body, so wouldn't be surprising, okay, okay. So thank you for that background, because that's a. I learned that it's could be hereditary, so I'm sure our listeners are like, oh, I didn't know that either.
Speaker 5:My aunt has them. My mom has them, my grandparents have them, the only grandchild that has it.
Speaker 2:But yeah, like.
Speaker 5:Henry will have to get checked.
Speaker 2:Okay, how? How soon can they check children for them?
Speaker 5:Oh, that's a good question. I did ask that but, I, think they said not to worry about it now. Okay, got it Okay.
Speaker 2:So now you're here, you have Henry, you're healthy and you're ready to grow your family. Why did you choose adoption versus like surrogacy, for example?
Speaker 3:How can they probably price oh?
Speaker 1:yeah, that was like yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, for us we've never specifically cared whether the child was biologically ours, so that's not really the big deal. I mean the country, let's say the state of Arbeitмен, and I know that's just not in any ballpark that we can swing were. You know, from the adoption standpoint we can take a child who would not have had a home otherwise and then give them, him or her, a loving loving home Also for me.
Speaker 5:We thought about embryo adoption. Yeah, a little bit yeah. But with the issue of the brain aneurysms my pregnancy was pretty rough. I have an autoimmune disease. I just kind of was like I feel like Pregnancy is.
Speaker 2:I'm just kind of like putting in there, done that, check the box, don't need to do it again. Yeah, I'm with you. I always, even growing up, I always knew I wanted to be a parent, but I also knew that I didn't want to be pregnant. And I know it's such a blessing when you want to have children and to get pregnant without any issues and we didn't have any issues. It was like who, babies to pregnancies, all good, and I know now that's such a blessing. Right growing up you just think like this is what your body is made for and you hear all the stories about like if you look at a boy Wrong, you're gonna get pregnant and it's like well, now, as an adult, we know that it's actually much harder in your windows, very small, and yes, it is a huge blessing when you can just naturally conceive. But in my head I'm like, oh, surrogate sounds nice, your baby, your body doesn't change, like I had heartburn and carpal tunnel and like things that you don't ever even hear about and I'm like, why do that?
Speaker 3:I think you say that in theory. I know you can be a slight control free, I know it wouldn't, I'd be like would you eat today?
Speaker 2:It would not have been good for me mentally or our surrogate, but you know, in theory you're like Kardashian did it the right way just ask me a thousand questions a day.
Speaker 3:I can only imagine how many questions she would ask us yeah poor surrogate.
Speaker 2:No, it was better that we didn't go that route. So, but we also talked about like because I don't have a thyroid, that causes issues in itself. I definitely have some autoimmune things, and so we, very early on in our relationship, also talked about like, okay, if this doesn't happen for us, what would we do? And we always came back to Adoption. So we're we're, too in done. So it's great to hear about your experience and to learn more about the process and what you've been learning along the way. So Can you talk to us about? So you decided adoption, and then what are you thinking? Domestic and our national open Clothes, like walk us through all of those things, because I know there's a lot to consider.
Speaker 3:I also think a lot of people don't even know what those terms that's I mean as far as open and closed.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, Do you want to do? You want to walk? Do you want to walk through that?
Speaker 5:Sure, so we are doing a domestic, open adoption. So a domestic means in the United States, so our child can come from any state in America, and open means that we are open to having a relationship with the birth mother. So open can look like Meeting in person every year, or it can be a just sending letters back and forth. We kind of kind of see what the birth mother is feeling. So that is both in and also with Domestic adoption. There's private adoption and public adoption, and we are going the private route. So that means that the birth mother is Choosing the agency and choosing us to be parents, whereas public adoption it's more like the child is being released. The mother no longer has the rights.
Speaker 3:With a public adoption, and the question I obviously once again what does that look like? Is there a difference in price cost point for the two different ones?
Speaker 5:Yeah, so private is more expensive. Public adoption or public agency usually is with older children, where we are adopting a baby.
Speaker 2:So would that then fall under like maybe a foster to adopt if it's an older child and the mother or the parents don't have, I guess, custody of the children and then the state releases them? Am I making this up or is that?
Speaker 1:No, no, no, you're right on.
Speaker 2:Yeah, okay, so what went into you determining that you wanted an open adoption, that you wanted it to be private? How did you decide on those factors, cause those are obviously really important?
Speaker 1:Yeah. So I think, at least from my perspective, we knew that a private adoption would give us more success on having an infant or a smaller kid, and I originally I don't think you know this I originally thought a closed adoption was the best route to go. But then I did some research on the psychology of those who have been adopted and closed adoptions and they have zero connection to their biological heritage and that, you know, obviously has implications as you grow up. When you ask where do I come from? Or just questions that any child would ask, and if your parent can't answer then it's like oh, I'm just, I exist and avoid almost. So when I did my research and found out that a lot of those you know kids as they grew up and they actually had some, just you know psychological problems and hard adjusting and feeling like they don't belong then I realized you know, public adoption is not public, sorry. A open adoption would be probably the better route for the child, just to make sure that you know we're their parents, but they still need to know and understand where they technically come from.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Would it be safe to say also that you know the difference between a open and closed is that with the closed scenarios it could be more often that the child's being removed, and not necessarily, you know, I guess.
Speaker 2:Well, maybe the parent is like this is too hard for me to have or maintain this kind of a relationship, because isn't there also semi open, where it's like you might get pictures or letters like once a year for the parents to know like, hey, my child is doing well, this is how they're growing. But I want to be removed from the situation, right?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I guess in my head you please correct them from wrong it kind of is a spectrum, if you will, where you can say I want an open adoption, and that open adoption may end up being more closed because you know, emotions happen as a mother has a child and maybe they thought they could handle being able to have communications, but ultimately decide, you know what I can't, you know emotionally, do this right now at least, and it can become even more open later, or you could, I think, from a close it is just closed where there's like zero come. You don't have any contact information of, you know, of the birth parents, so to speak.
Speaker 5:Yeah, so on our we have to make an adoption profile website and on the website we have to put that we are open to openness and you know the kind of follow the birth mother's lead and what she's feeling. But open adoption is actually becoming more common and I think it actually is more common than closed adoption now when it comes to adoption privately, it makes total sense based on what you said, james.
Speaker 2:Right, like I can't imagine walking through the world and being like, where do I come from? And I know. Now I actually have a couple of friends who have found their birth parents through like ancestrycom and 23andMe, but technically, you know, their adoptions were closed. They found siblings and half siblings. I know somebody who found their half sibling that they knew their mother had put up for adoption when they were a teenager, right, and like now they actually are really close and they've integrated that person back into the family and so you know, if you can skip all of that, right, and instead of the child being 20 or 18 or whenever, they can then reach out and try to actually do that research to help them feel more whole. I think that is really wonderful. I follow a girl on Instagram who's adopted twins and I know that they've had an open adoption and she shares whenever it's, you know, a holiday or the twins' birthdays, that the bio mom is what they call her, you know is there and she gets to take pictures and you know. But they seem to have established really clear boundaries and it seems to be a really healthy relationship for everybody involved. So I think it looks like it can be really beautiful if you. I guess do it the right way and everybody's comfortable. So Talk to us about so. You said you wanted a baby. Is there an age range? So you're like 12 months and under? Like what is a baby for you first off?
Speaker 5:It's birth. Birth to three months. Yeah, I was gonna say zero to three months.
Speaker 2:Yeah. All right, so no babies over three months. That's like off the list. Yes, okay. How do you make the determinations for other things? Because, james, you're black, lauren, you're white? For those that aren't watching, yeah, Henry is obviously a beautiful mixed brown boy. What do you envision for your family and what kind of criteria did you put in place, or were you able to put in place, for this adoption?
Speaker 5:Yeah. So they literally go through every single race and combination imaginable and say are you open to this or are you open to this? And we, we talked, we want the child to look like he or she came from us, kind of like Henry. So we're open to biracial black, innocent black.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we didn't really. Like I mentioned earlier, we don't care if the child doesn't have our genes or not, but I have no people who have been in. It's called transracial adoptions, where both parents are either, or at least one parent is, completely different race than the child, and I've heard just some of the struggles that they had growing up and not again that sense of belonging, not feeling like they belong in either, or so at least for me. I was really big on making sure that we had a brown of some of some huge child. Yeah.
Speaker 3:I mean, when I said before we had our kids, we talked about the possibility if we had to go the adoption route and I kind of said to her I was like if we were going to adopt a child, child's gotta be brown, like you know.
Speaker 2:He's like I'm not walking through target with some blonde child. For some parent to come up to me to talk about me taking some kid, it was a whole thing. He had a lot of big feelings about it.
Speaker 3:I was not. I didn't want to be harassed for having to walk around my own child, right, I mean, it's valid.
Speaker 1:And we have friends who the dad's black but he has a biological blonde hair, blue-eyed kid and we've talked about some of the looks he gets when he goes in public just with that child and that's his bio kid. It's like I can only imagine a different scenario.
Speaker 3:And also for us too. It's from a statistics standpoint. It was shown that brown children, black children, are adopted less often, and so we were like you know, if we're going to go that route, we are going to look for a brown or a black child, because they aren't the ones that are adopted often.
Speaker 1:So yeah, I mean you're right. I was just Googling, you know, in the very earlier process and it was kind of heartbreaking to see on Google saying, like you know, brown and black kid adoption is less than you know a white kid's adoption. I was like that's a very sad stat.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's so heartbreaking. Yeah, I mean, obviously I mixed, he's light but black. And our children are both mixed, different shades but they both have green eyes and you know. I mean, yeah, we've just talked about the world we live in and not like, why put yourself in a scenario where you could be questioned and I know him, I know my husband, that's not going to go well for the other party, right? Like he's at the grocery store picking up muffins and somebody wants to question if that's your child, biological or otherwise. Right, it's just not going to go well for you.
Speaker 3:I also have to clarify like I'm sorry, but black people are not. You know, kidnapping kids that aren't their own and then taking them to Whole Foods, or to First off.
Speaker 1:That's very, very sad. Not a thing, it's not happening?
Speaker 2:It's not happening. But then you look at the opposite, right Like? I mean literally any time I walk into Target, you are bound to see a white mom with a little black child, if not to. If you go to the parks in our area, white moms, black children, which great. Thank you for adopting children that need homes. I hope you're doing what you need to to again, like you said, james, make sure that they understand where they come from open, closed adoption. Otherwise, whatever that looks like, they clearly have a background and a heritage that is not like yours. So are you educating them but nobody's questioning them? People look at them with, like you know, the white, save your eyes and it's like, oh, they adopted the brown kid, that's so nice. But then you flip it and it's like you're getting questioned and stopped in public, right so again the disparity is real, so I have a question Like so when?
Speaker 3:so, once you get to the point of where you guys have already decided, you know all the details of the type of adoption you want to have. What is like the qualification process that they have in regards to making sure, obviously, that you're fit to adopt a child? A lot, Walk us through that.
Speaker 1:There is a ton of paperwork that you have to go through. You have to get clearances, you have to get FBI, you have to get your fingerprints. Then it's sent to the FBI. You have to get your fingerprints. They do a local search. So we just went up to the local jail for Wake County and they, you know, run your fingerprints and then you send those fingerprints onto the FBI and then they do like the state search. So, yeah, there's a lot of. And then there's two additional clearances, one being like the sex offender and then one being like, yeah, child abuse registry which is handled, I believe, by Our home study firm. Yeah, so there's a lot you you have there's so many times you sign your name.
Speaker 2:Like a mortgage, but more.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'd say yeah, definitely more intrusive than a mortgage, for sure.
Speaker 5:Yeah, any medical statements from all. Like Henry's doctor, our doctors, his employment statements. Yesterday we had our home study, so they came to our house. They inspected it to make sure, stopped a code, we were safe. And then we each had a interview with the social worker and she asked us about our back, our background, our childhood. Our siblings, our parents, their employment, you know. Just a lot of questions and we're not even done. We have to have a joint interview Coming up with the. My goodness. That sounds like a whole study and we have of the agency. We have to create a website, we have to create a printed profile and we have to do a video.
Speaker 1:We're at the video week. We have to create, need to create a video stage right now.
Speaker 3:So yeah, we're trying to find. I saw the picture you guys had posted that you were using on the website and that was a great picture.
Speaker 2:So, do you have like, did you have to come up with this checklist of I've got to get my fingerprints, I've got to send them here, I've got to send them there? I've got like, is that something that you created on your own, or did the agency give that to you and you're just kind of going Through and checking the boxes.
Speaker 1:Yeah, exactly the latter. On the agency website they have everything that you need for each phase or stage, if you will, the adoption and everything is you know. You know it's got an open box and you need to check it and then upload the actual document or correspond to that box. So like it's still outlined very well, but obviously still a lot.
Speaker 3:Out of you know the private agencies that are out there. How did you select the one that you're working with?
Speaker 1:It's funny that so I looked up adoption a while back when we were first having fertility issues and I actually looked up, like you know, you know best interracial adoption adoption firm and it led me to a website that was a I didn't know at the time of third party subsidiary of the private firm that we actually ended up going with. So when Lauren started doing some additional research, we found out like, oh, they're the, they're one of the same. Okay, this, this is like serendipitous, if you will. This makes sense for us to proceed with these, with these people. They were highly reviewed on a lot of other like non-affiliated websites with you know. So we thought like, okay, this is, we're gonna do this. We want to make sure we're not doing with someone who does, like you know, one or two adoptions a month. We want to make sure we're going with someone who knows exactly what they are doing. They can educate us on the ins and outs and where the pitfalls and speed bumps potentially are.
Speaker 3:Did you also completely kind of like a little bit of a tangent? What was that Netflix thing that we watched in reference to the adoption agency that was splitting up like twins or whatever?
Speaker 2:And seeing our father, and then it was on our father, wasn't it? But then it was like they talked about studies that were happening.
Speaker 3:We watched the Netflix special so adoption agency, where they were taking siblings. And then putting them in different homes Like a better home or a lesser home to see like is it nurture versus nature? Oh, that's so wrong.
Speaker 2:Yes, it was so wrong and then it was oh. Oh, we'll have to find it in Lincoln in the show notes, but it ended up being they separated triplets, remember they ended?
Speaker 1:up, I did hear about that, yeah, yeah, I haven't seen any of the documentary I didn't hear about. You know the Didn't? I know at least one passed away right.
Speaker 2:Well, one of them, like what the initial, like one that they were focusing on initially, was um, they ended up running into each other at college right, yes, they went to the same college, and so it was like and one of them had, like, one personality and one had the other, and so, like, girls were coming and kissing one of the guys on the cheek and he was like why are these random girls coming up to kiss me? But it's because his one of his brothers had already been there and, like, established these relationships. It was kind of wild.
Speaker 3:They do like a deeper yeah, they do like a deeper dive, and they find that the agency has done this for years.
Speaker 2:So with twins and, yeah, in multiples.
Speaker 3:Obviously, that's not the situation you have.
Speaker 1:Lauren asked was the name of it, dear Evan? Was that it? I'm not sure. All right, you kind of have an idea of what you're talking about. From a while back we're, I think. I read a story on. It was like well, that's, it's kind of wild, but yeah.
Speaker 2:We'll find out and we'll put it in the show notes and I'll message you about it. It was, it was really interesting I mean terrible, right what this agency was doing. But obviously you want to go with somebody reputable, so Our agency really tries to put siblings Together.
Speaker 5:Yeah, that's one of the questions that they ask.
Speaker 1:Are you open to twins or triplets? Sibling group yeah, sibling groups, because they want to make sure they stay together.
Speaker 2:Okay, actually that is a good segue, because I wanted to ask, um, from my understanding, you have to fill out a ton of paperwork on what you will and will not accept, right? So like, if the child has drugs or alcohol in their system, if they've come from you know an abusive situation, if, like I mean literally every scenario that you could possibly think of or that's been on svu Is on a sheet right and you basically are like, yes, no, yes, no. So can you dive into that a little bit? And how does that factor into? Like, if somebody called you through this process and said, hey, we've got a baby girl, she meets all of these criteria except for this?
Speaker 5:Like, how, how have you guys decided when your hard stops are right, like, yes, we will accept this or no, we won't accept this, yeah, Well, the am, once we go through all of our preferences, the agency is not going to Match us with any birth mother that doesn't fit our preferences. Okay at all. Um.
Speaker 1:And I think for me coming up with the preferences was Kind of uncomfortable. Honestly, anything about it like you naturally is a natural yeah, yeah. Like who? Who would actively say, yes, I want a child who has fetal alcohol syndrome, or I want a child with a mother has a history of schizophrenia, but at the same time you're like I want to nurture and love a child, so it's like it. It's very uncomfortable to say like I'm picking and choosing the toppings on a pizza is kind of what it felt like and we, we just had to really sit and talk and and really like being agreement on you know, ultimately, what are we looking for for a family?
Speaker 5:Mm-hmm, yeah, kind of the delicate situation when we do already have a child. So we have to think about you know, yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, have you guys had any Um bump head moments through that process where one of you felt strongly one way and the other person was like Kind of standing their ground and saying I'm not willing to budge, or were you like very in sync the entire time?
Speaker 1:No, we've had a bump head moments. Uh, none on. Like the actual box you check with choices and the adoption, it's more like getting the work done.
Speaker 5:We were on the same page.
Speaker 2:Yeah, okay, well, that's good. Yeah, um, what did you check? Are you looking for one child or did you check the box for multiples?
Speaker 1:We checked the box for one. Uh, she'll probably give you this, like I ultimately. I mean, I could have a lot of kids, so, but I don't want more than one at a time. So we both were agreement on that, and we'll have to come back to the drawing table later to see if we want to continue.
Speaker 3:We'll have to do a follow-up once you uh have to Well going from one to two one to three is different.
Speaker 1:It's all I think difficult I feel like one to three at the same time. Oh, that would have been yeah, that's a lot.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's a lot. Walk us through. So you're going through private adoption, which you already said in the beginning is more expensive. It sounds like it's a more I don't know curated experience, maybe, or a more one-to-one experience.
Speaker 3:I can use the word boutique boutique Is that? How would?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean.
Speaker 1:I mean, it's, in my opinion, you're paying for the experience and the wealth of knowledge that they have, and not only being able to guide you, but the trust that they were generating the industry of, you know, caring for birth mothers and making sure, helping them make the best decision for their family or for their child that they're, you know, going to have. So that's how I look at like we're spending money and we're getting a at least in my opinion a ton of value in what we're spending on that and they really take care of the birth mother.
Speaker 5:That's what I liked. They just don't say, you know, after the adoption process is over, they don't leave her in the dust, they offer her therapy, they check in with her. That's what I really like to have it.
Speaker 2:So what is all of this Costing? Because we are a financial literacy pod, so let's get into the numbers.
Speaker 3:because I know James. I know James knows them, I know I'm sure there's a bunch of spreadsheet so it's a good thing.
Speaker 1:Well, I guess the good thing for us is Not everything is due upfront, right? So I believe it's around they and of course they have different packages, but they have, like you know, I don't want to say basic because that feels weird, but they've got, like your entry package, I've got your middle to your package and they have, like you know, your soup deluxe package, if you will.
Speaker 2:Okay, wait. What do these packages entail, like? Why are they different? Because I did not expect you to say that.
Speaker 3:For starters, Do you get a better kid with that Like?
Speaker 2:The.
Speaker 1:IQ on this baby one that doesn't cry has nothing to do with the kids, about like how much services they will offer you. So, like the whole videography thing is an example. I believe it's baked into one of their higher tier packages where they'll put together videography services for you. And you know, make sure you don't make sure your website's beautiful and pretty and whatnot versus.
Speaker 5:Oh, so like turnkey versus diy, exactly and then I know it's a pop tier package.
Speaker 2:They handle all travel planning and see that we're gonna have to all to know somewhere.
Speaker 5:I think they take the hotel transportation, all of that Okay so which package did you choose?
Speaker 2:Oh, you come on.
Speaker 3:I already knew who the DIY package was.
Speaker 1:Okay, you can oh a DIY.
Speaker 2:All right, they went with the basic package. For those of you that don't know, Lauren and Brandon Chase.
Speaker 5:Well, it's more hands-on. Like I love writing, I love scrapbooking, so this was kind of right up my alley, like I had the website finish in like a week because I just like writing and I'm a writer, so I love scrapbooking. So that's basically scrapbooking. So I wanted to be more hands-on and then the cost makes sense.
Speaker 1:Yeah, okay, so yeah yeah, so they split it up. I think we went with the plan that was around $24,000, to get your name not even on the list but to say, you know, we're putting our skin in the game. There was a $9,500 payment and then, once you pay that, it kicks off a six-month clock. So by the time your six months is over, you not only need to have everything legally done for the adoption, like all your clearances, all your paperwork filled out, but you also need to pay the remaining balance on, like the $24,000. So we have until I think it's September 7th to like make that final payment. Once you make that final payment, everything's been approved. That is when they start. I think, yeah, auditioning is not the right word.
Speaker 2:That's when they start like showing you to prospective mothers. Okay, okay, so you could be from start to finish not finish holding the child, but start to finish of the process. All dues paid within six months with the agency that you've chosen.
Speaker 1:If you decide to pay everything, like if you just say you know, I'm just going to pay the $24,000 right now, or whatever the charges, they'll start auditioning you right then. And there you obviously, before you can legally adopt, you have to have your adoption package completed. But you know, if you just say you know what, here's $24,000. Let's go ahead and get this process started, you can be introduced to prospective mothers right then.
Speaker 3:Okay. So here's a question that I get, megasyn. I always go to the finance route, obviously, here. Do you know if, for example, someone wanted to adopt a child and they don't, you know, have the $24,000 to be able to give it within that six month period, are there loans available? Yeah, do those grants.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so they're, well, they're grants, but those grants are typically divvy to, you know, middle and lower income. Like you know, those grants are going to give someone making you know, six figures a year like, oh, let me give you money to adopt this kid. There's also, like specific I get a lot of like SOPA advertisements because that's, you know, our primary bank. So it's like specific, like loans or family planning loans that you can do, that have. I don't know if it's an interest rate that's subprime or not, but they will offer you, you know, up to a certain amount to be able to, you know, put towards the fees For us and our situation. I know we we wanted to like remove debt from the table, so, from us, we had already like we were saving for this to begin with, and then, when we have a conversation with the adoption advisor, she said like hey, you know, we're obviously very popular. You've done your research. If you were serious about this, you know you want to make sure that you can get on this list as soon as possible. So we already had, like you know that 9,500 allocated to this process, and so we're like okay, let's go ahead and begin right now, got it?
Speaker 2:Do you? I know a lot of, especially in the tech space. Now there are the companies will help with IVF treatments, fertility treatments, adoption. Do you have any benefit like that with the company that you're currently working for?
Speaker 1:Don't get Lauren started. But yes for fertility, no for adoption services.
Speaker 2:Oh, that sucks, yeah, okay, we're not going to pour salt in the wound, all right. We should write. You should write a letter. Lauren. Yeah, you should write a letter that stinks Like why? But okay, okay, so you saved for it. You know you have to have the payments done to be presented to the mothers or the families. What happens then? Like, if somebody chooses you, can you then still say no? Or you're like, ah, this one doesn't feel right. Like, how does that work?
Speaker 3:Well, I hope you can say no.
Speaker 5:Well, I mean yeah, but you can say no. They try to really make sure you're being with natural, someone that you are going to say yes with.
Speaker 1:Yeah, they really don't want to care where you're declining a future child. They like how they structured is. That's why they ask a lot of those detailed questions, just to make sure, like when we present you an offer, we know, or we have a high likelihood that you're going to accept that. You know that that mother saying we choose you is, you know, my child's family.
Speaker 2:And then what do they anticipate? The wait time is Because I've always heard you know you could be waiting for a year or two years and you just literally don't know. Just the agency guaranteeing something? No, no, no.
Speaker 1:It's we. You know. The interviewer came yesterday we were talking to her about it because you know she's gone into a lot of homes and you know there are things that can make you quote unquote more attractive. But there's no real, you know, average timeframe. She said you know she's seen like three or four months and then she's seen two years. She did identify there are certain qualities and characteristics that do help. So being a young family helps, you know we have a young child, so that is seen as attractive. Being like, oh, I knew my siblings going to go up with another sibling already, so you know that's you know, more attractive. There's certain things like that. You know. Being, you know, financially stable can potentially help as well. But you know, really there is not an average timeframe where, hey, you know you make your final payment, we guarantee three to six months you'll have a kid. She just can't do it.
Speaker 2:Are you having to show your financial statements. How do they know to the agency, not the parents or both.
Speaker 1:No, not the parents to the agency. Yes, and I don't know if they disclose that to the moms or not, but they definitely. Yeah, you have to provide them with your financial statements, record and proof of employment and salary and all that information.
Speaker 5:But we also have to. Um, they ask you for a birth mother donation. Oh, yeah. And that is advertised.
Speaker 2:So what is? What is that? So they?
Speaker 5:told us that the average range was five to $10,000. So we went in the middle of 75.
Speaker 2:So that is the money that you would give to the mother after the adoption?
Speaker 1:We would, yeah we would give that money to the agency. We wouldn't like write the mother a check because you know not. You know protect yourself. So we see the agency and the agency divvies it out as they see fit to the mother for medical expenses, transportation, maybe basic needs.
Speaker 5:She needs food, shelter, something like that.
Speaker 3:So looking at our website and seeing all these people and what their donation is, oh, now do they have like a max key, like you know, state a max timeframe that like if it takes past this timeframe then we might not be, you know, interested anymore.
Speaker 1:So there's no guarantee because I mean, we did our due diligence prior to signing the paperwork. There's no like refund policy, so you can't just say you know what we're good we're, you know either we're going to. You can't say you know we're going to go through IV up as an example. Can you hand this morning?
Speaker 5:back they're going to look at. I did say that if I happen to get pregnant, they will hold our money for two years. And then give it back no, and then we can still pursue the adoption.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, but still there's no like, so you could walk away, but you would be losing anything that you've already paid.
Speaker 3:I was like I'm thinking you know what if something changes, circumstances wise, where you're no longer quote? What if you something changes and you are no longer quote, unquote, qualified in their minds to be adopting?
Speaker 1:Uh, yeah, heaven forbid, obviously, but no, we. I don't have a specific answer for you on that, just everything that we read. It's like hey, not necessarily buyer beware. But yeah, you need to make sure that you're committed to this because there's, you know, not a scenario for a refund.
Speaker 3:Cause, like in my mind, I'm just thinking of things like, you know, god forbid. You know, none of this obviously occurs, but like, if one is, something happens and one of you guys becomes, you know, somewhat disabled for for any reason, you know, that's obviously a huge change to your family dynamic and it might not be the ideal scenario to you know, bring on the child, yeah.
Speaker 5:Yeah, I guess we got to probably lose the money.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I would say yeah, the money would be gone unless you pursue legal parameters to get it back based upon a situation change that is unforeseen and unpredictable.
Speaker 2:That makes sense. How did you feel about the donation for the mother? Is that something that you had heard about before you started the process and doing your research? It's not something that I was aware of. So I'm also wondering like the ideal scenario is the five to $10,000. Do you feel like you would maybe be more readily chosen if you gave 10,000 versus 7,500 versus 5,000? Like, have you thought about any of that or am I spiraling here?
Speaker 1:No, you're not spiraling. I think we wanted to make ourselves as attractive as we possibly could to a potential birth mother, not saying that they're going to choose a family solely based on how much you know it's temporary, how much temporary financial support I can get. But we still wanted to, you know, not come off as like being unnecessarily frugal when, on average, you know the birth mother expects or should expect this range of money or financial assistance.
Speaker 2:So is that something you then also budgeted for, or you had to like figure that out after the fact?
Speaker 1:Yeah, so one. I you know, being black, I come from extremely proud people, right, and we didn't like growing up. We never asked for anything. So for me it was a big step out of my comfort zone to go to the fundraising route. Luckily, lauren has definitely pushed and nudged me forward. So we used our circle or our network friends, families, neighbors and we went the fundraising route and we dedicated a pledge to say like, hey, any amount of money raised would go directly to the birth mother, up to this specific number, so the 7,500 goal. We've actually hit that goal. We've gone way past that goal, which is Congratulations, yeah, appreciate it. It blows my mind, but like that's what we did to say we wanna be able to support the birth mother.
Speaker 5:We had a trivia night, so we had to go over. We had food and drinks, had trivia, and then we asked hey, if you can donate money let's do.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, that's so fun. I love that. Well, and I think too, I mean it makes sense. We all know how expensive is to have a child, especially in the United States. So for somebody who's already giving up their child, you were probably assuming in most cases finances are important, I mean they're important for everybody, but then to leave the hospital without a baby and a bill like a huge bill, I mean to have that help, I think, is really I never knew that it existed, but it does. It makes sense and I think it's something very generous that adopting families can do. So thanks for enlightening us there as well. I wanna be respectful of time. We like to leave our listeners with something that they can walk away with, something that they can take with them. So for any of our listeners who are looking at adoption, have friends or family that are looking into adopting, what message or advice would you like to leave with them today?
Speaker 1:Good person. C-horse is the same.
Speaker 5:I think we really want-.
Speaker 2:You can both leave one if they're not the same For adoption.
Speaker 5:You really have to. I would do your research and make sure you're on the same page. I wouldn't go into it lightly. This is something that you have to be committed to.
Speaker 1:Is that the same as yours? No, but it's a very good one. I mean, they tell you of the emotional troubles that you could have, like say, for example, you get chosen by your birth mother and then she has a child and she says you know what, I would like to parent my child now. And you're like, oh, so you have to mentally prepare yourself for having that kind of loss, and it is a loss for sure. So, like Lauren said, you've got to be intentional.
Speaker 5:It's a loss but it's also a gain. They say not to call it a failed adoption because we always want the biological parents to have their own biological kids and we want them to be able to support them as much as they can. So that's why they said it's not really a loss. I mean it's an emotional loss.
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely would be an emotional loss.
Speaker 2:So you have to go in but a gain for the child to be with their emotional, with their biological parents.
Speaker 5:From a financial standpoint, we would lose all the money that we donated to her.
Speaker 2:Oh, so she can take the money. And now could she choose another family? Or she would just, she would only keep the money if she kept the child herself. Yeah, that's a great question.
Speaker 1:I would hope if she can't take the money and like run to another family, then do it again and run to another family. I think, they would probably have some safeguards against that.
Speaker 2:Well, even the plot twist of she can keep the money if you're not taking the child is really interesting.
Speaker 1:So, buyer beware, because yeah, and that's when we went with this phone. Because they like they, they also do their own vetting process of the mothers as well.
Speaker 2:Wow. Well, definitely a lot of research that needs to be done. I know we only scraped the tip of the iceberg with the information that you've given us, but definitely a lot of insight, a lot of knowledge. We will link any and all resources that you'd like to share. I know we didn't name the adoption agency by name. I know that there's, I'm sure, hundreds, if not thousands, in the United States, but thank you for giving our listeners a glimpse into this very intense process where you have to do a lot of research and really be intentional about the direction you want to go in. So thank you for sharing your story with us. We wish you nothing but the best in this journey and cannot wait to see your beautiful family grow through this process.
Speaker 3:So thank you for sharing with us today, once he or she arrives, definitely have to do a follow up, oh for sure, and a late eight.
Speaker 1:For sure? Yeah, absolutely, I was joking. Like you know, your son and our son, they could be brothers for sure.
Speaker 2:They totally could, especially because we just are starting to change Roman's haircut. I think Henry was cooler in the haircut department than Roman for a long time, so now we're keeping up.
Speaker 3:James has hair, so he's a little bit more up to date on the stuff.
Speaker 2:I haven't had hair for like 10 years Well you know there's that, but we're excited to see the progress. We'll definitely be linking the blog, lauren, that you're writing so people can stay in touch, and if the donations are still open, we'll link that as well for anybody who would like to donate to you growing your family. So we can't wait to see what happens and wish you nothing but the best. So thank you so much for being with us.
Speaker 1:Thank you all so much.
Speaker 2:Don't forget. Benjamin Franklin said an investment in knowledge pays the best interest. You just got paid Until next time. Thanks for listening to today's episode. We are so glad to have you as part of our Sugar Daddy community. If you learned something today, please remember to subscribe, rate, review and share this episode with your friends, family and extended network. Don't forget to connect with us on social media at the Sugar Daddy podcast. You can also email us your questions you want us to answer for our past the sugar segments at theSugarDaddyPodcast at gmailcom or leave us a voicemail through our Instagram.
Speaker 4:Our content is intended to be used, and must be used, for informational purposes only. It is very important to do your own analysis before making any investment based upon your own personal circumstances. You should take independent financial advice from a licensed professional in connection with or independently research and verify any information you find in our podcast and wish you rely upon, whether for the purpose of making an investment decision or otherwise.
