Transcript
WEBVTT
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Yeah, and leading into the child being here and now you're.
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If you have maternity, paternity leave has now expired.
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You've used it all up Now looking into daycare expenses, which, for if you are a parent or you have friends that are parents, it's the number one expense that everyone talks about when their kids are in it, because it is literally another mortgage payment.
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It is, I mean it is.
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I have no words.
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I mean at one point we were paying twice our mortgage.
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Oh yeah, when we had both kids in daycare.
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There was a point in time when we had both of our kids in daycare and we were paying Right under $3,000 a month.
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Yeah.
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And our mortgage was $1,580.
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Welcome to the Sugar Daddy Podcast.
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I'm Jessica.
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And I'm Brandon.
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And we're the Norwoods, a married millennial couple here to help you build wealth so you can live the life you've always dreamed of.
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Brandon is an award-winning licensed financial planner with over 10 years of experience and millions of dollars managed for his clients all over the US.
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Don't worry, we leave all the intimidating finance mumbo jumbo at the door Stick with us as we demystify the realm of dollars.
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So it all makes sense.
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While giving you a glimpse into our relationship with money and each other, we are so glad you're here.
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Let's get started.
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Hey babe, what are we talking about today?
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Today we are talking about how expensive it is to have children and if you can't afford them.
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So this episode is for people who are thinking about expanding their families and the price of having kids.
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Yeah, they're probably the most expensive thing you'll ever have in your life.
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When I look at our bank account, I'm like man I love my children.
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I love my children, but we would have so much money.
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I definitely remember you know, I definitely remember when I was a kid I was, I was getting you know, as I was older, my mom saying I'd have so much more money.
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Yes, like I love you, you, but, oh my gosh, you were costing me everything and, like I, I understood, I understood the concept and like, to a certain extent as a kid, but now, as a parent myself, I'm like, yeah, you would, you have a lot of money now, but you would have significantly more if you didn't have my brother.
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so expensive, oh gosh, and it's really like you think about, like the basic costs, but it's so much more than that.
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Yeah, because as much as you want to maybe think about every possible cost can be associated with your child.
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It's not going to happen.
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No, it's just not.
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There's so many things that you just did not account for.
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We'll start the episode by saying if you are waiting for the perfect time to have children, or you're waiting to be financially, you know, uber secure, you're just not going to have kids.
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Yeah.
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Because then you're never going to get there and you're never going to feel ready.
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From a financial standpoint, there are a million reasons to talk yourself out of having children, and this is assuming that you want children.
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This is not saying that everyone should have children.
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This is assuming that you've already made a decision that you want to have children.
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And if you just sit there and analyze I'm going to wait till I have this.
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I'm going to wait till I have that You're going to talk yourself out of it.
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Now, obviously, there is a certain financial basis that you should have.
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You shouldn't be worrying about whether or not you're going to have a roof over your head the next month.
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Right.
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You should be set in the basic idea of financial stability before you have a child.
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Now, granted, unfortunately there are too many people.
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You have food on the table.
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Your lights are on, yeah.
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And unfortunately there are too many kids out there whose parents did not think through that and they're not in the best situation.
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So you should have that as your bare basics.
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You are able to take care of your own self comfortably.
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Yes, this episode is you have a roof over your head, you are financially stable and secure enough to live a comfortable life.
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That is the baseline for this conversation, because if you are struggling in any way, literally the people across the street from us.
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We were gone all day yesterday and when we got home that house was empty.
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We knew it was a rental house, but like they, literally they must've gotten evicted.
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I was like what, what, where did they go?
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What happened?
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Like there was somebody that I'm assuming the owners of the home came and like were changing the locks when we, when we got home last night at 9 pm, they were there that morning when we left the house.
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So like if that is your situation, no, maybe you should not have kids at this time but assuming that that is not your situation and you are comfortably living.
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Your fridge is stocked, your pantry stocked, you have running water, you know you are comfortable in those ways.
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And now you are considering having children.
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Can you afford to have children?
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And let's start before the child even gets here, in the sense of you are currently pregnant and the costs that are associated with that as far from a medical standpoint, especially in the United States.
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Yes, because it's going to cost you to have a baby.
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Do you have proper insurance?
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Do you have proper health insurance?
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And even when you have proper health insurance or good health insurance, I mean, I think our births still cost us $7,000 to $8,000 a piece after everything's said and done.
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Yes.
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So what's normally going to happen when you have, you know, decent health insurance is that when you have the baby, all the costs that are associated with leading up to the actual delivery and through the delivery process, more than likely you're going to meet reach what's called your out of pocket max, and what that is is.
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That means that you have a certain amount that you would pay in a given year for any type of health related expenses, and that's the most you'll pay.
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Anything after that you don't have to pay for.
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So let's just say, your out of pocket max is $10,000.
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So once you pay $10,000 in health expenses yourself for that year, anything above that is free.
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Which also, you know, not that everybody can plan perfectly.
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But let's say you hit your out of pocket max in December but your baby is not due until March.
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Guess what?
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It starts over at the beginning of the year.
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Yeah, it is a calendar year, so the ideal scenario is that you have a baby in January.
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So the rest of the year you're basically not paying for any type of you know healthcare expenses.
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Yes, also something to of you know health care expenses.
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Yes, also something to consider.
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You know, obviously you can call your insurance, you can ask them all of these things when you are deciding on what practice you're going to go with, as you know, for your OBGYN appointments, a lot of those practices now are going to require you to pay.
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A lot of those practices now are going to require you to pay.
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Basically, they'll take the entire expense of your birth, based on your insurance plan, and they'll divide it by how many doctor's appointments you're going to have essentially, and then they'll say, hey, at every appointment you are going to need to pay this much to get you to that out-of-pocket max because they want to make sure, by the time that that baby is supposed to be here, you are done.
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So those are things that you need to be asking your providers.
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What is the expectation?
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What are you going to be paying per appointment Towards the end of your pregnancy?
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You're going to be going to the doctor every two weeks, then it's every week and then, depending on how old you are, if you are a geriatric pregnancy, you're going to be going more frequently.
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You're going to have more scans.
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There's all sorts of quote unquote nuances that you are going to need to be aware of.
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So ask those questions right.
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What is this going to cost me?
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What is each appointment going to cost me?
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How much is each of these scans going to cost me?
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And all of this is assuming you have a healthy pregnancy.
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Yeah right, this is not.
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You are having complications.
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There is something you know going on with the baby or your health or your health right.
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What happens if you end up on bedrest and you stop working way ahead of when you planned?
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I mean, there's so many things that you simply cannot account for when it comes to pregnancy and having your own children.
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Obviously, we're not talking about adoption or surrogacy or anything like that today, but assuming that you are going to have this child, it is your biological child and you are going to be paying for all of these costs Some things you just cannot account for.
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And kind of back, following what you just said in regards to the bed arrest of possibly having to stop working earlier than you expected.
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Do you have a maternity leave available to you at your current occupation, or a paternity leave as well?
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And if you do, well, how long is it?
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Because not all of them are the same.
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You know the kind of the standard that, if you have it, hopefully it's three months, but there are definitely places that are much more progressive and on par with other areas of first world countries where they give you longer than that.
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Well, and if it's the standard three months, is that falling under FMLA, which is a disability right when your disability insurance kicks in, and is it going to be paid for?
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Are you going to be taking your full paycheck?
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Are you going to be getting a paycheck at all?
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That's something that you need to discuss with your HR department and understand what that's going to do to your income while you are out with your newborn.
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And men, you know, with paternity leave starting to become more of a common thing finding out that, you know, do you have that option?
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And even, you know, taking a step back when you are possibly planning on having a child and you might be looking at new you know, new jobs.
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There are going to be a couple of different things that you might be looking for that are more beneficial to you now than previously, when you were just looking for jobs and you weren't going to have two kids.
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So, you know, for example, like I said, the maternity leave policy could be a big sticker for you in regards to a new profession if you foresee yourself having kids in the next few years.
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Or you know, here, for example, we're going to get into some of the other expenses, but, like daycare expense, there are some companies like, for example, there's a company here that actually provides daycare on site, paid for as part of their employee benefits package, and that could be a lot of money put back in your pocket.
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Now you might not see it as your income that they're providing to you, but it is money that you're not spending, so it can make a big difference.
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Yeah, I think that's a really great call out.
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Is that planning aspect.
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Especially if you're looking to change industries, maybe companies, and you are thinking about family planning.
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Absolutely look at those benefits.
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Right, we had Amber Guyton on from Blessed Little Bungalow and she ended up going through the egg freezing process which her previous company would have covered, and then she ended up starting Blessed Little Bungalow.
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She works for herself and she ended up having to pay out of pocket.
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Right, she's like man.
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Had I just thought about this a year earlier, this could have been a benefit to me.
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Right, we have friends that have gone through IVF, have left companies where there would have been maybe a $5,000 or $10,000 IVF benefit.
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They've switched companies.
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That company now doesn't have that benefit and now they're going through IVF.
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Those things matter.
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They add up Maternity policies.
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Paternity policies I mean we also have friends who the wife in the scenario had five months maternity and then the husband has another, you know, 12, 13 weeks paternity.
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I mean you are getting months and months and months of a time period where you don't need to pay for childcare.
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That makes a difference.
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So if you are considering having children, these are the things that you should be thinking about?
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What are my company policies?
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What are my company benefits?
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Am I looking to change companies?
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I should be looking at the ones that have these benefits that are going to align with the family life that we want to have.
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So definitely take a look at all of those packages because they absolutely will make a difference in your family planning.
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Yeah, and leading into the child being here and now.
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If you have maternity, paternity leave has now expired and you've used it all.
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Up Now looking into daycare expenses, which, for if you are a parent or you have friends that are parents, it's the number one expense that everyone talks about when their kids are in it, because it is literally another mortgage payment.
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It is, I mean it is.
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I have no words.
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I mean at one point we were paying twice our mortgage.
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Oh yeah, when we had both kids in daycare.
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There was a point in time when we had both of our kids in daycare and we were paying Right under $3,000 a month.
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Yeah, and our mortgage was 1580.
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Yeah, so it is.
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You have to think about that as an expense because it is early on.
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It's going to be the biggest expense that you have ongoing for a few years and that does kind of lead into you know kind of things that are going on currently with Harrison Butker's speech in regards to women being stay-at-home moms.
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Oh Harrison.
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Now, if you choose to be, I'm going to say I'm using stay-at-home moms because that's how it was phrased in regards to that speech.
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Obviously, it could be a stay-at-home parent in general, but if you want to be a stay-at-home mom, I applaud you 100% If that's what works best for you and your family and that's what you want to do.
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I am not discouraging that or saying anything negative, because I think it's the hardest and most underappreciated job there is A hundred percent.
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Now the difference is is that I don't think every woman should be expected to be a stay-at-home mom.
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If that's not your personality, that's not what you want, that's not what your family wants, that's not what is best for your family, then you shouldn't be looked down upon for not being a stay-at-home mom.
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I'm going to.
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Yes, I agree with everything that you just said.
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I also want to call out when we were talking about family planning, I always was like I like working, I like making my own money.
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You guys, if you've listened to the podcast for more than three episodes, you know how I feel about making my own money and being a career woman.
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You know how I feel about making my own money and being a career woman.
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However, there is an element of having a child and holding your child for the first time.
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It just tears you open in a way that you cannot.
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You just don't know.
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Until you know, until you've been there, until you felt it, until you've held your child for the first time, there is an unexplained element.
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You can have the plan of I'm going to be back to work in six weeks and I want to climb the corporate ladder and then you hold that child, you smell that child, you cuddle with that child and you are just ripped wide open and you could very easily change your mind and be like no, I want to spend every waking moment with this little tiny human.
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I'm never going back to work again.
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That was not my experience, Um, but it very well could have been, and it is the experience for some moms who also felt like me, like no, I'm a career woman, I love my career, and you hold that child and you're like, nope, this is now my 100% priority Not saying that my children aren't in my career is, but let's stay on track.
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You just don't know.
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So then what happens?
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Right, If you have that guttural reaction of I'm not going back to work, Like nope, that's done, it's behind me, Then what happens?
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Can you afford that?
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Because that's going to be a huge thing.
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If now you were planning on having a two household income, two income household, and now you're like I'm not going to go back to work, Well, what now?
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Yeah, and the thing is really from like the number standpoint, looking through your situation and seeing if it's possible and doesn't make sense.
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So, for example, like we've had friends who were school teachers and when it came time they were having multiple kids that unfortunately our teachers not paid nearly what they should be paid, and when they were looking at how much they were making from an income standpoint for being a teacher as compared to what they were spending on daycare and everything else, it kind of made sense for their situation, for the individual, the woman, to not work and be the stay-at-home mom in addition to her wanting to do it.
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But then also the numbers made sense in that scenario.
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Yeah, if you're making $40,000 a year and you're spending $40,000 a year and there isn't an element of like, well, I'm the one who's maybe providing insurance through my employer or something like that.
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I mean, is that then worth it?
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Yeah, then those scenarios way out.
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Does it make sense?
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Do you want to stay at home?
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Does it make sense to stay at home?
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But like let's let's just use just as example just make significantly more than $40,000 a year.
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So from a number standpoint solely, we are coming out on top with paying all the expenses we have while still having her work.
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If she stayed at home, the numbers would be skewed drastically in the negative way.
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We would be poor.
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So my biggest thing is does it work for you?
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I don't like the conversation, especially for women.
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I don't like the conversation of it's one or the other, and if you're in one side of the camp, you look down upon the other side, and vice versa.
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They're both fine options, as long as you and your family are in agreement and it works for you.
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Yeah, absolutely.
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Now there is an element, of course.
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If you are planning on going back to work, well, what does your childcare situation look like?
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Do you have a grandparent that is going to watch them?
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Are you going to pay that grandparent?
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Are you going to do in-home care?
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Get a nanny, get an au pair, get you know.
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Whatever that might look like.
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In most cases, it's probably easiest to go with a daycare.
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Now I will say if you are currently pregnant, you need to start looking at daycares and you need to get yourself on a list.
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Okay, it is a competitive out there and these waitlists are long, and if you want to be at a good daycare, that waitlist is going to be even longer.
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So this is not one of those things where you're like, hey, I'm three minutes from delivering and I haven't explored daycares.
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You need to do that early.
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You need to explore the daycares in the area.
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Ask your friends and family who they're.
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You know where their kids are going, who's happy, who's not.
00:18:15.326 --> 00:18:19.073
Go to the ones where they're happy and tour those schools.
00:18:19.073 --> 00:18:24.289
Ask about pricing know that that pricing is going to increase year over year.
00:18:24.289 --> 00:18:35.994
So if it was, you know, $345 for the week now by next year you know, add another 10, $15, $20 to that weekly payment.
00:18:36.319 --> 00:18:37.365
Get yourself on the list.
00:18:37.365 --> 00:18:44.188
In some cases again talking about maybe unexpected expenses you will need to put a deposit down to reserve your spot.
00:18:44.188 --> 00:18:50.469
They're not just going to let you put your name on a handy dandy list and when that baby gets here, you're magically in.
00:18:50.469 --> 00:18:54.050
No, you're going to need to pay to show your commitment to that daycare.
00:18:54.050 --> 00:18:56.580
In.
00:18:56.580 --> 00:18:58.686
No, you're going to need to pay to show your commitment to that daycare.
00:18:58.686 --> 00:19:13.769
We actually did that for one or two daycares and ended up essentially wasting that money, right, because we wanted the options of different daycares, and so we put our deposit down to be on the wait list and then ultimately decided on one over the others.
00:19:13.769 --> 00:19:17.223
But those are things that you need to think about and you definitely need to calculate.
00:19:19.067 --> 00:19:21.682
I mean, one of the biggest things too is we're going to stay kind of in this.
00:19:21.682 --> 00:19:29.287
Early phases of, you know, a baby to a toddler is the unexpected Everything.
00:19:29.287 --> 00:19:33.980
There are tons of unexpected things that happen with a child and this is just.
00:19:33.980 --> 00:19:38.290
These aren't even necessarily negative, terrible, bad things, just unexpected things.
00:19:38.290 --> 00:19:47.571
So, for example, you know, I think most people, especially I'm gonna say men, you know, I have a I had a very skewed idea of what the pregnancy process and having a baby early on like, what it looked like.
00:19:47.571 --> 00:19:54.570
So you're automatically assuming, oh you know, you're gonna have a baby and the baby's going to breastfeed Not always.
00:19:54.570 --> 00:20:01.924
We took a class which very much enlightened me to the process, where I just thought that breastfeeding was just a natural thing and it's easy, easy peasy.
00:20:02.045 --> 00:20:06.557
Every woman's body can do it, it just happens and the class opened my eyes.
00:20:06.559 --> 00:20:08.063
It's a beautiful experience.
00:20:08.063 --> 00:20:08.884
It is not.
00:20:08.884 --> 00:20:13.942
It's a process and it doesn't, unfortunately, for some people that you know.
00:20:13.942 --> 00:20:18.373
Our experience was I'll let Jess speak to that, since she was the one that you know kind of firsthand experience.
00:20:19.101 --> 00:20:21.846
Yeah, I mean, we were absolutely planning on breastfeeding.
00:20:21.846 --> 00:20:24.212
You know, breast is best, blah, blah, blah.
00:20:24.212 --> 00:20:26.788
Listen, fed is best, feed that baby.
00:20:26.788 --> 00:20:30.628
We went in for an induction on a Wednesday.
00:20:30.628 --> 00:20:33.369
Aston wasn't born until Friday.
00:20:33.369 --> 00:20:46.723
I was in labor for hours, ended up with the C section, my body had gone through it and I was not able to breastfeed, and so that was another expense that we were not planning on.
00:20:46.723 --> 00:20:51.988
And, of course, what's funny is and I joke about this all the time now is you know, this was our first.
00:20:51.988 --> 00:21:01.553
Everything with your first is like you you want the best for your kids, no matter what, right, and so we were doing this organic crazy.
00:21:01.553 --> 00:21:17.672
You know, we were spending a lot on on this special formula that we were getting from a specialty market and all the things, um, and it was expensive and it was not an expense that we were planning on because we were planning on on breastfeeding, youfeeding, you know, uh, I also found out.
