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And so I remember as a kid, feeling, you know, my dad really was of the belief that, like, no matter what you do, you need to earn the most amount of money possible and even still, money's kind of like the boogeyman that's out to get you, like you can't run, you can't hide, it's never going to be enough.
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And I watched him carry that burden and still to this day carry that burden.
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And um, that was, you know, a real turning point for me when I started budgeting, because I had this empowerment where I realized, like I can choose how to manage my money and if I choose how to manage my money, I can choose how my life will go.
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And that gave me a sense of autonomy decisions decisions, like you said, like it's a tool, right.
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And so financial education for me was the difference between feeling as though my life was out of control and feeling like I had choices.
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You know, hey babe, what are we talking about today?
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Today we are going to be talking about one of my favorite topics, which is women in finance, women investing, women having their own bank accounts, making their own money and really being in control of their future.
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Because we know that when women have their own money and when women make their own money, they have options.
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And too many times, women are stuck in bad situations and bad jobs and bad relationships because they do not have control of their own finances.
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And so today we are welcoming Nicole Stanley, who is a financial coach.
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Wow, I should have a little bit more coffee.
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Today we are welcoming Nicole Stanley, who is a financial coach, and she has amazing stories that she's going to share with us about her own journey from being in debt to being in a financially great spot and now helping other women achieve success in finances as well.
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So, Nicole, thank you for being with us today.
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I'm stumbling over my words.
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I'm so excited, oh my gosh, I love it.
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I'm so happy to be here with the two of you, so thanks for having me.
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Thank you so much.
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Well, let's get into this bio so that everybody knows exactly who we're talking to and why we're so excited to have this conversation with you today.
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Nicole Stanley is founder and head financial coach of Arise Financial Coaching.
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After paying off debt and increasing her family's net worth through investing, nicole discovered her passion for helping women build and change their communities through wealth.
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Arise Financial Coaching has helped hundreds of women get out of debt, save money and become confident investors.
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Nicole has been featured on GMA, yahoo Finance Time, abc News and more.
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Thank you again, nicole, for being with us today so excited.
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Let's get into your first money memory, because we feel that our first memories of money and finance really shape, for good or for bad, a lot of how we navigate finances in our adult lives.
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So we'd love to hear your first money memory.
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Yeah, I think that this one is a little more connected to money, because I think I could think of any memory early on, but one is so my mom was a trap like a flight attendant growing up, so I grew up with the luxury of flying for free and because of that my family traveled a lot.
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So my dad was also a consultant for a company that was owned by Microsoft, so he had a lot of credit card points and things like that.
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But my mom, as a traveler, was someone who loved to get a lot of souvenirs, and when I say a lot of souvenirs, I mean like bags and bags of souvenirs.
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So I have a lot of souvenirs, and when I say a lot of souvenirs, I mean like bags and bags of souvenirs.
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So I have a lot of memories actually of being in cities all over the world and all over the country where my mom would be always searching for like the t-shirt or the little globe that she was going to get, and my dad hated that.
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My dad hated that.
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My mom was.
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We'd go to these really cool places like you know New York, san Francisco, paris and my mom was always in these shops, right, like these little shops, and my dad was like let's get out of these shops and let's go and explore.
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And so one memory that I think really shaped me about money for good or for worse, or you know, bad was I remember I used to stand outside with my dad when my mom would go in the shops and you know, it was like this way that I was making a stance that I wasn't going to be shopping as much as her.
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And I just remember this one time where my dad I was outside with him and my dad was like a pack a day smoker and he'd be smoking his cigarette and I was maybe like I don't know eight years old or something like that and standing outside with him waiting for my mom and him saying good girl, that's my girl.
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And him saying good girl, that's my girl.
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And I really took a lot of pride and identity around being the person who didn't spend the money.
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And I think that that is one of those memories that happened a lot that really shaped kind of my extreme nature when I first started my financial journey, where I was really frugal and took a lot of pride in being like I can change a diaper with one wet wipe because I'm so frugal and I remember my sister who had kids.
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I know I had told her that and she was like that's not something you brag about, Nicole, that's not something you brag about.
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You're like folding it into like 16 little squares, Like yeah.
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Yes, yes, and so, um, I I look back at that and think about but that's really something that shaped me was standing outside with my dad and having him be like, yeah, that's, that's, that's the way to do it.
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You stand outside and you wait for the people who are shopping.
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So, do you feel like you did that Because you were looking for his approval?
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Because, like what young girl doesn't want to go into those shops?
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So do you feel like it was rooted in like people pleasing, or like pleasing your dad?
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Yeah, I think there was a lot of things behind it for me, you know, in full transparency, there was, you know, some illness in my family, on my, for my mom, and so there was a lot of erratic behavior that came connected to that shopping.
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So, as a way to make myself feel like I was normal and making, you know, normal decisions, that was something that I think I really wanted to prove to myself, because, you know, watching my mother go down that path was really hard, and you kind of hear more about that story later.
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You know, I didn't have a college fund that was spent.
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There was a variety of different things that had happened from that behavior that is a little more extreme than just the mom who's shopping.
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So I like to kind of preface with that as well, that that was something that really I think was playing into that behavior for me.
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I wanted to be like I'm normal, I'm not somebody who's overspending, I'm not, you know, um.
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And so instead I went the totally opposite direction.
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Yeah, as so many of us do, right From what we see, in some cases our parents do, and then we're like, nope, we're going to be the exact opposite.
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So again, for good or for bad, right, sometimes it is, it just is what it is is, and we have to learn how to find that, that medium I used to collect shot glasses from wherever I went, and then I had a bunch of them hey, that's a great thing.
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But then when I got married like I don't, I don't take shots, like I'm I got married and she was like why do you even have these?
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like there was, so they were just in boxes and I was like yeah, you have a point you know, I don't necessarily need all these so I basically, like I vividly remember going through, especially when we were moving from our townhouse into our new house, and I was like holding up each shot glass and I was like, does this one have a memory attached?
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Does this one have a memory attached?
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And I made him tell me like no, this is like a random shot glass for myrtle beach, like no memories attached.
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Versus like oh no, this is like a random shot glass from.
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Myrtle Beach like no memories attached versus like oh, I got this one in Europe.
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I didn't have Myrtle Beach shot glasses.
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I'm just saying, you know, like some of them were clearly like a memory which we have kept, and then others were like no, you can get rid of that.
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So yeah, that was the only like tchotchke kind of thing.
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Yeah, I'm not a collector.
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You're not a collector.
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You're not a collector.
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Yeah, have you been listening to our podcast and wondering how am I really doing with my money?
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Am I doing the right things with my investments?
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Am I on track to reach my financial goals?
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What could I be doing better?
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If you answered yes to any of these questions, then it's time for you to reach out to Brandon to schedule your free yes, I said free 30-minute introduction conversation to see how his services could help make you the more confident moneymaker we know you could be.
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What are you waiting for?
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It's literally free and, at the very least, you'll walk away feeling more empowered and confident about your financial future.
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Link is in our show notes.
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Go, schedule your call today.
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So take us to the little girl standing outside of the souvenir shops to 2015.
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What was that?
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2015 journey?
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Yeah, so she's pretty connected, Like that little girl was.
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I would say kind of the main person in my mind, that idea of if I don't spend money, it means I'm a quote good person, it means that I'm a good steward and personal finance.
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It made sense why, for me, one of the biggest people who I was drawn to was Dave Ramsey, because he has a lot of moral kind of compass around how you spend and I know some people listening might love him, some people might hate him, and I wouldn't call myself either one anymore.
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I think it was a very passionate way to start my financial journey, but in the end I can see how it did a little more harm in my personal life than it did good, because I really took that spending money is bad and saving money is good to that whole new level.
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So when I started my debt-free journey, I was somebody who was obsessed with being frugal, so much so that when I finally did accomplish all the financial goals that I was supposed to be aiming for you know, we were a small family we paid off our debt on 56,000 a year, I think we we paid off like $30,000 in 10 months and then we started investing and saving.
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I wanted to celebrate with my family and so we booked a trip to Paris, and this was like a dream of mine to be able to take one of my children abroad and when I booked the tickets, I had a panic attack, and so I was somebody who was I'm debt free, I'm right, I'm doing all the things, and what I found was that my relationship with money became one that was really centered on restriction and how can I, you know, save the most, and it was really centered on anxiety.
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And so part of what I realized in that time was that I was not the only one who had felt that way.
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There was a lot of people who, on their debt-free journey after their debt-free journey, you know, in their investing journey, and even clients that I work with who are millionaires, still have a very committed relationship of anxiety with their money, and sometimes that's not always like perfectly correlated with how we're doing financially, and so I wanted to focus on how could I help other people?
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I mean, I had to focus on myself first, but you know, really, how can I help people, no matter their financial situation?
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Start to create this positive relationship with their money, one where you use money as a tool.
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It's not something that tells you who you are.
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It's not like making it bigger than it has to be, but rather using it as a tool to live out the life you want to live.
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So that's kind of how that young girl outside the shop started.
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And I would definitely say that when I first got married because my husband and I were both lower income at the time it was, um, really like dramatized when we first got married, because we couldn't afford a ton Um, I did like this middle-class um test online to see oh, back in 2015, what would we have been considered and we would have been considered just above the poverty line, and so I was really trying to feel more in control of my spending.
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But that feeling in control was kind of leading me to have an unhealthy relationship.
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So I think that a lot of listeners right now might feel that as well, and I want you to know that you're not alone Like it's.
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It's okay If you're somebody who's in debt and you're feeling really anxious about your money and you feel like you're the only person.
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That's not true.
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It's okay If you are thinking you know, I would love to find a way to pay off my debt and not feel miserable.
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There is other options that don't have to just be centered on restriction and being frugal to the tune of using one wipe to change a diaper Right.
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Well, and shame too.
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I think a lot of what you just described is shame around debt, and if you're in that journey now of I want be debt free or I want to take control of my finances and you're looking online at creators like us or yourself, or you know the people in our community it feels like so many people are now debt free and paying off their homes and all these things which I also feel like can be a little stigmatizing and polarizing, and so we've actually taken the stance a lot of times to say we are not debt free, we don't plan on, for example, paying off our mortgage.
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We lease one of our cars.
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The other car is paid off, right, and it really all comes down to what are your goals, what is your income?
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What do you value?
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Like, one of the things that we spend the most money on is travel.
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You know you're sitting in Stockholm, sweden, right now, so I know you guys value travel as well, but you know you're probably not going to see me with a closet full of designer bags and you know $300 shoes like my my shoes come from Target.
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You know like and so for your Rothies except for my Rothies.
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But you know it's what you value and what your goals are, and if your goals are to be debt free, then that's a great goal for you.
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But let go of the shame, right, Like, let go.
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And I know Dave Ramsey leans in a lot to like.
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You know, if you have any debt you shouldn't step foot into a restaurant unless you're working there, right?
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I mean, some of that is so out of touch with you.
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Know, mental health and working towards paying off debt while investing, while having an emergency fund.
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I know you have so much to say, I'm going to stop talking, You're fine.
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Well, there's a few things you said like so in 2015, there wasn't a whole lot of people in the space, so you didn't have very many people to turn to.
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So that's why a lot of people I mean.
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Dave Ramsey, susie Orman kind of similar similarities between the two of them.
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So it wasn't a lot of options, as far as you know, the self help in regards to getting your finances in order, so that's why a lot of people turn to him.
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But the one thing that I really love that you said, I honestly feel like a lot of people think that money is a goal and a lot of people's goals are attached to a specific monetary value and I'm like that is not a goal.
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You know, once you have a better relationship with money, you understand that it's a tool.
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Then that's when you're able to use it properly in order to actually achieve your goals.
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So I love all the stuff that you were saying and like you know, kind of to piggyback off of what Jess was saying, like everybody's situation is so different and everybody's lives, emotions you know how you grew up with money, how that, you know, dictates how you interact with money.
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Now that you don't really you can't just have one cookie cutter idea that's going to work for everybody.
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You really have to.
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Like I don't dislike for Dave Ramsey there's a lot of things I don't agree with, but there are things that he says that I do agree with.
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So I think it's really good for people to listen to a variety of sources and you know, take what you think is applicable to your situation and that works for you and the other stuff, ignore it if you want to.
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You know.
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I do think there's a something to be said for engaging with or learning from people who are in a similar age bracket as well.
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Right, because I personally do not think that Dave Ramsey, being the age that he is, faces or faced the things that we face right In.
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Hey, we spent more than our mortgage more almost twice our mortgage on daycare.
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I don't know that Dave Ramsey ever did that, right.
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I mean, the cost of everything these days, like inflation is insane, daycare is insane, everything and so you have high earners living paycheck to paycheck, and a lot of that, of course, comes from poor money management, but there's also something to be said about just the increase in pricing across everything these days.
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So I'm glad to see more women in finance like yourself and women content creators in finance, so that people do get that variety.
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You know, and one of our favorite podcasts is I Will Teach you to Be Rich with Ramit Sethi, and he talks to millionaires all the time.
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You know millionaires who are.
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I remember this one episode, I think their net worth was like over 11 million and the wife was still driving around to like four or five grocery stores to save on blueberries.
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I mean yeah my mom is retired and she's a multimillionaire and she still has paralysis by analysis in regards to changing her habits.
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So my mom raised my brother and I by herself and so she had those frugal habits and obviously those are good because they helped her get work to where she's at.
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But I'm like now you can, you know?
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spend some money.
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You can spend money.
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You're not going to run out.
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Everything's fine, but it's hard changing that.
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So, like you said, you know the income is not indicative of your actual relationship with money per se.
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Yeah, I do want to go back.
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You said something really interesting.
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Um, you and your husband at the time were not high earners.
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You paid off a significant amount of debt on under $60,000 a year in income.
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Can you lean into that a little bit for us, because I do think there are people likely listening who are like, well, I'm going to be stuck with this debt because I don't make $200,000 a year, but there is a way.
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So can you talk to us about that?
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Yeah, so that's a great question because I love to get into specifics.
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So, for us, we paid off $30,000 worth of debt in the year 2015.
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And we lived in Phoenix, arizona, at the time, and we were just the two of us.
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We didn't get pregnant with my daughter until the next year, so this was two childless adults and we also, you know, we focused a lot on being frugal, which is, at the time, what I told myself like, oh, this is why we're able to pay off all of this debt, right, but actually, um, the reason why is because I got a cold call sales job for about 10 months job for about 10 months.
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So while we were newly you know, newly engaged and newly married, I was smiling, dialing and was like a telemarketer and who worked on commission.
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So I was really good at that job and so I made essentially enough money to pay off about half of our debt, or two thirds of our debt, from that.
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Um, we paid it off straight.
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So that $56,000 number is the average over the years.
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So if you look at our tax returns, it was 56,000, but, um, that's like split between one year where I was in college, the next year I was, I left that job and then I worked for like a, a youth working job where I made $36,000 a year.
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Um, so I at the time thought it was being frugal, but really I just earned enough money.
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So we lived on my husband's salary and then I smiled and dialed and made more money and then the second we paid off our debt.
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I quit that job because it was the worst Smiling and dialing is hard, so that's really I've been there, done that.
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Yeah, it was horrible, and so really it was out earning yeah.
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Yes.
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Was it?
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What was the?
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debt, so that's how we were able to do it.
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Was it credit?
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card debt or student loans or just a mix of debt.
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So we had $15,000 in student loans and then 13 ish, 15, 13 to 15 in auto loans.
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So when we started, both my husband and I combined, I think we had I had like $6,000, and he brought in a few, a couple thousand, um, and then no, I think maybe I had a little more.
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Oh yeah, so I sold my car cause it was a.
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We crashed it.
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That was like 7,000.
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We bought a new car and then we had to get a loan for a new car.
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So those two deaths.
00:22:29.201 --> 00:22:47.789
So when you and your husband got married, was he on board right away in regards to you know, going the kind of the extreme route to pay off that, because obviously that is a process in and of itself as far as merging how two separate people uh handle finances and whether or not you know he was on board the way that you were.
00:22:49.520 --> 00:22:51.125
That's a great question, okay.
00:22:51.125 --> 00:22:56.221
So, um, nobody ever asks about my husband, which is great that you're asking about him.
00:22:56.221 --> 00:22:57.164
He's, he's awesome.
00:22:57.164 --> 00:23:33.131
So, my husband, when we got married, he went to a small private school and he did youth ministry, actually for the first six years of our marriage, um, which, as you can imagine, meant that we were rolling in the benjamins, um, and so we he was very on board with, like, we will be really great with whatever we have, you know, um, so when we were engaged, when we were planning our wedding, I started to get regular panic attacks planning our budget for our wedding, um, and so I did start going to therapy, thank God.
00:23:33.551 --> 00:23:40.132
But we also decided that my stress around money was like it was ruining my life.
00:23:40.132 --> 00:23:43.027
Like, truly, I couldn't go to the a restaurant.
00:23:43.027 --> 00:23:46.101
I was crying on the way to my wedding because I was so stressed about money.
00:23:46.101 --> 00:23:55.645
Like so many people think that your financial stress is kind of like a bubble, when I really know what it's like to feel that stress everywhere every time you swipe your card.
00:23:55.645 --> 00:24:14.583
And so our kind of breaking point was when I was doing the budget for our wedding and I looked at him from across the table and I was like, babe, if we can't pay for this super cheap wedding, like the wedding that our friends are bartending and our friends are making a cake for, like, how will we ever have a life together?
00:24:14.583 --> 00:24:17.048
Like, how are we going to have kids?
00:24:17.048 --> 00:24:18.152
How are we going to do this?
00:24:18.152 --> 00:24:45.929
And that's when we went to um, start learning about money and we did Dave Ramsey's course together and that course really opened up a lot of of opportunities for me, because that was the first time I had ever heard that I had some kind of control over what my life could be, no matter my income, and I think that that was a really positive message that I learned during Financial Peace University was that, you know, I could budget, whether I had a little bit of money or a lot of money.
00:24:46.048 --> 00:25:04.292
Where, growing up, what I saw from my family was, you know, my parents fought about money constantly and the reason was, you know, my mom had severe mental illness and I'm her guardian and conservator now because of her disability, but during my childhood it really wreaked a lot of havoc.
00:25:04.292 --> 00:25:16.539
So I had my father, who was high earning and, you know, like I said, he was a consultant for a company in Microsoft in the early two thousands, like come on right, Like he was was a consultant for a company in Microsoft in the early 2000s, like, come on right, like he was doing really well for himself.
00:25:16.539 --> 00:25:24.848
But then we also had we also had this secret in our household of where all that money was going and how it was flying out.
00:25:24.848 --> 00:25:42.647
And so I remember as a kid feeling, you know, my dad really was of the belief that, like, no matter what you do, you need to earn the most amount of money possible, and even still money's kind of like the boogeyman that's out to get you, like you can't run, you can't hide, it's never going to be enough.
00:25:42.647 --> 00:25:47.925
And I watched him carry that burden and still to this day carry that burden.
00:25:47.925 --> 00:26:00.750
And um, that was, you know, a real turning point for me when I started budgeting, because I had this empowerment where I realized I can choose how to manage my money.
00:26:00.750 --> 00:26:04.986
And if I choose how to manage my money, I can choose how my life will go.
00:26:04.986 --> 00:26:08.779
And that gave me a sense of autonomy decisions.
00:26:08.779 --> 00:26:12.530
Like you said, it's a tool, right.
00:26:12.530 --> 00:26:22.663
And so financial education for me was the difference between feeling as though my life was out of control and feeling like I had choices, you know, um.
00:26:22.663 --> 00:26:35.183
So I definitely think that when you're budgeting, people can kind of see it as its own goal in itself, like, like you said, where, um, people have a goal of paying off debt.
00:26:35.365 --> 00:26:41.368
One of the things I tell my clients all the time is that paying off debt really isn't a goal, like it's a means to an end.
00:26:41.368 --> 00:26:42.792
Why are we paying off debt?
00:26:42.792 --> 00:26:43.942
What is this even about?
00:26:43.942 --> 00:26:46.746
Right, like, what is it that we're hoping for?
00:26:46.746 --> 00:26:49.108
Are we hoping, you know, to retire early?
00:26:49.108 --> 00:26:53.761
So most of us don't say I just want to lay on a beach and drink margaritas for the rest of my life.
00:26:53.761 --> 00:27:07.230
Most of us want to do that because we want to spend extra time with our kids, we want to be able to spend time with our grandkids, we want to be able to explore the world or start a business that we think is really going to change things.
00:27:07.230 --> 00:27:19.660
Often, our financial goals are so unsexy because they're just financial and, um, I, for me, that's like you know, when I think of the debt-free story, it's like, oh yay, I paid off these numbers.
00:27:19.660 --> 00:27:24.231
But really, for me, it was about freedom and it was about choices in my life.
00:27:25.401 --> 00:27:32.661
We talk about our goals all the time and we get to you know very much to the granular point of how we want them to look.
00:27:32.661 --> 00:27:39.025
And from my experience I find that most people don't talk about their goals, so one on their own.
00:27:39.025 --> 00:27:42.827
They haven't actually thought internally of what it is they want their life to look like.
00:27:42.827 --> 00:27:46.230
And when it comes to couples, you'd be surprised at number one.
00:27:46.230 --> 00:27:50.633
You're probably not surprised Number of couples that I'm not surprised, yeah, exactly.
00:27:50.772 --> 00:27:57.857
They don't talk to each other and have no idea the type of goals that each individual wants to achieve, but then also the type of life that they want to live together.
00:27:57.857 --> 00:28:04.702
So I'm really big on.
00:28:04.702 --> 00:28:09.007
One of the first things we're doing is that we're going to have this conversation and it's not going to just be limited With no limitations.
00:28:09.027 --> 00:28:09.938
What do you want your life to look like?
00:28:09.938 --> 00:28:12.644
Yeah, so, long story short.
00:28:12.644 --> 00:28:20.848
Because of my husband's career path, he was very on board with budgeting because he was like, if I'm going to pursue this, we have to.
00:28:20.848 --> 00:28:23.701
We got to make the most of what we've got.
00:28:25.365 --> 00:28:29.413
Um, so you talked about the catalyst, which is I'm great.
00:28:29.413 --> 00:28:32.904
I'm glad that you talked about that, cause I was going to say, like what was the moment, right?
00:28:32.904 --> 00:28:42.309
Um, we just released an episode, uh, from Haley and Justin, from price of avocado toast and their moment was like the $7 Costco muffins.
00:28:42.309 --> 00:28:45.061
I'm sure you've heard that story and so for you.
00:28:45.122 --> 00:28:45.923
It was a good story.
00:28:46.163 --> 00:28:47.105
Yeah, I, we love it.
00:28:47.105 --> 00:28:54.494
Um, you know she, she was pregnant nonetheless, and you're talking about $7 muffins Like you are literally risking your life, but I digress.
00:28:54.494 --> 00:29:05.329
So for you it was the wedding and you know I hate to hear that you were crying on the way to your wedding, when it's supposed to be such a joyous moment, and obviously you guys have come out on the other side.
00:29:05.329 --> 00:29:15.064
Let's pivot and talk about you paid off your debt While you were doing that, were you building your savings fund, your emergency fund?
00:29:15.064 --> 00:29:16.107
Were you investing?
00:29:16.107 --> 00:29:20.280
I know that Dave has, you know, strong feelings about those things.
00:29:20.280 --> 00:29:20.662
So what?
00:29:20.662 --> 00:29:22.184
What did that look like for you all?
00:29:24.269 --> 00:29:38.811
Yeah, so we followed Dave Ramsey's baby steps up until we bought a house and I am so grateful that we deviated from his baby steps, because I remember we bought our house before we were.
00:29:38.811 --> 00:29:40.657
You know, we did over the 25%.
00:29:40.657 --> 00:29:50.526
I think we were paying 31% of our take-home pay towards our mortgage and I only put 10% down, which meant I was, you know, the devil.
00:29:50.846 --> 00:29:52.509
Basically, that's what I had taken into me.
00:29:52.509 --> 00:29:53.732
You didn't have PMI, right.
