Transcript
WEBVTT
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In today's conversation, you're going to hear us speak with attorney Stanley Tate, who focuses specifically on student loans.
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We talk about everything from the predatory loan industry to what you really need to consider before taking out student loans for yourself or as a parent, taking student loans out for your child.
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We dive into mindset as well as really understanding what you're signing up for when it comes to these loans and then his services around including your loans in bankruptcy, and understanding the intricacies and all of the student loan forgiveness programs.
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If you have student loans or know somebody who is drowning under student loans, this episode is for you.
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Hey babe, what are we talking about today?
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Today we are talking about student loans, which I know is a very daunting, hair-raising, anxiety-inducing topic, and I know we've talked about it in the past.
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But today we actually have an expert with us.
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We have Stanley Tate, who is an attorney specializing in student loans.
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So we're going to get into all the nitty-gritty about what's going on with the landscape, what kind of services he provides his clients and overall kind of best practices about what to know before taking out student loans, how to repay them, so that maybe you don't need to actually call Stanley's office for help later on down the line.
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So we're going to get into all of those things, because we know that this is a topic that affects millions of Americans.
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Unfortunately, we're not going to get away from it anytime soon, and then, with this turnover in administration in 2025, I don't know what's going to happen.
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So we're going to talk to Stanley about that.
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Stanley, thank you for being with us today on the Sugar Daddy podcast.
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Thank you for having me.
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Absolutely.
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Let's get into your bio so that everybody knows where your expertise lies, and then we'll get into your first money memory before we dig into all the juicy student loan goodness.
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I think you know, when we talk about bio, there's like you could start with your origin story, like where you come from, or like your educational background, training, whatever.
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But I think for me it's most important to know I'm from Chicago Southside, because that informs everything that comes later, just those lessons you get from there.
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But beyond that, graduated law school, been practicing student loan law now for a decade plus, got into this area of law after practicing consumer bankruptcy for a couple of years and realizing that we weren't fully addressing student loan problems.
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And this is back in like 2014,.
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People go through bankruptcy and still be stuck with student loans afterwards.
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And when is?
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Back in like 2014,.
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People go through bankruptcy and still be stuck with student loans afterwards.
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And when I looked at the landscape of who was trying to solve these problems, there were very few people who had a focus on this area of law in particular.
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In fact, it wasn't really an area of law and I was like this is a problem.
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You look at the time there were like 30 plus million people and no one's really focused on.
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Okay, what do you do with all of these programs?
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So that got me into it.
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I've been doing it since then, 2014, full time.
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One of the only practices nationwide that's all they're focused on is student loans.
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That's amazing.
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I absolutely love that.
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Well, let's yeah, you just gave us the bio.
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I was going to do that for you and read your bio.
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Oh, my bad.
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I'm so sorry about that.
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No, don't even.
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It's great, but I want to make sure that we cover some of that other stuff that Chicago Southside that you just mentioned.
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I know that's very important to you, but what I have is Stanley.
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Tate is a distinguished attorney specializing solely in student loan law, a niche where few venture, which is exactly what you just said.
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His unparalleled expertise encompasses the intricate process of discharging student loans in bankruptcy.
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Known for his practical and accessible guidance, stanley has become an indispensable resource for borrowers of diverse backgrounds.
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A trusted speaker, he delves into higher education, financing and legal automation for his peers.
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His academic roots trace back to Southern Illinois University, carbondale, for undergraduate studies, followed by a law degree from Thurgood Marshall School of Law with honors.
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So you left that out.
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You got to give yourself those accolades.
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Stanley, his pedigree.
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You know what?
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I'm going to say, someone else will say it, you were doing my job.
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His pedigree also includes federal clerkships in Texas and Missouri.
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Stanley has been featured in the New York Times, the Wall Street Journal and the Washington Post.
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He's also been named a Missouri super lawyer rising star multiple times over.
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We just want to make sure we give you your props, you know.
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You know I never run it down like that.
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I sound like I'm trying to pick up some young lady at the bar on a Friday night, just running down the hall at late.
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I mean, maybe you don't read the bio to her when you're, you know, trying to pick her up at the bar.
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You know people, they like to sell themselves.
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But no, thank you for doing that.
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It's sometimes it really makes me blush when I hear the kind of uncomfortable because I just do the work in front of me I don't really worry about the results or how it all stacks up, so it's kind of cool to hear Well, we know that the best people doing good work rarely care about the accolades and care about the work and the people that they're helping, so we're going to put you in that camp.
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So thank you for the work that you do.
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I appreciate it.
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Thank you, going to put you in that camp.
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So thank you for the work that you do.
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I appreciate it.
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Thank you.
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Before we get into all of those specifics, let's go into your first money memory, because we are a financial literacy podcast.
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The first real money memory is I remember paying.
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I got caught up in some type of criminal charge where I had to hire a lawyer and I hired this lawyer, paid him $5,000.
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And to me that was like an ungodly amount of money at that time but it was worth it because I believed he would make.
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Whatever the charge was, go away.
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And sure enough he did.
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And he did in what seemed like 15 minutes to me and I was like, wait, you can make that type of money doing that for that.
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And from then I became focused on how does that kind of inform the type of life I want to lead, because I didn't think that world was possible.
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Everyone around me they worked like you thought you had a good job if you worked a sunrise shift at UPS, right.
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So it's like that extra 50 cent interval increase.
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So having seen that and seen what was possible made me believe my world was a lot bigger than the South side of Chicago, that there were more opportunities other than being a postal man.
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No shade against it whatsoever.
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But it was just very blue collar type of work and it wasn't something where you can get paid an exorbitant amount of money in exchange for the time that you spent.
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That kind of goes back to the whole concept of it's hard for someone to become what they aren't currently seeing, and that's so important when you're young.
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Yeah, absolutely I mean, but for like a different world, but for that experience like that, where these kind of things start to compound on one another, you start to believe a world is bigger than the blocks that you track to and from school.
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right, to law school and like, okay, I'm going to become an attorney, because apparently that's not what you had in front of you as far as examples.
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So that must have been a tough road in and of itself.
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Yeah, it was, but it was just setting out okay, what does it take to become this thing Like?
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For me, it was never a question of smarts or brain power, just a question of smarts or brain power, it's just a question of focus.
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And once I realized, okay, to become a lawyer you have to go to law school, you have to pass the LSAT, yada, yada, yada.
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And then I set off on that path.
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And that path I didn't have the undergrad grades to do it.
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So then I had to think, okay, what else can I do?
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And I tried to find a job in the legal field.
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No one would hire me.
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Because I was like, oh, if I have experience, that'll help buttress my resume.
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No one would hire me.
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So one day I was talking to my boy.
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He was like man, you know what?
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Why don't you just join the military as a paralegal?
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And I was like I bet.
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And then I went down there and I signed up to the recruiter.
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I was like yo, I'm only joining if I get to be a paralegal.
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And they were like, okay, let's see what can be done.
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And I was like no, you don't understand me.
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It's not see what can be done.
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I'm only doing this.
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If this happens, right, let me clarify.
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And that happened.
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And then as soon as I got in the next year, I sat down for the LSAT, took the LSAT deployed to Iraq, turned in my application to law school when I was in Iraq got accepted.
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And as soon as I got that acceptance letter I was like, oh my God, this is real and I can do this.
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And then got out the military, went right to law school and realized, whoa, this is a whole new world.
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The skills that brought me there won't keep me there, won't take me to the next level.
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Now I got to learn some new skills here, but thankfully it was just like that level of focus of I want to do this.
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So what steps do I need to take in order to get there?
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Let's do that.
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Have you been listening to our podcast and wondering how am I really doing with my money?
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Am I doing I really doing with my money?
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Am I doing the right things with my investments?
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Am I on track to reach my financial goals?
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What could I be doing better?
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If you answered yes to any of these questions, then it's time for you to reach out to Brandon to schedule your free yes, I said free 30-minute introduction conversation to see how his services could help make you the more confident moneymaker we know you could be.
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What are you waiting for?
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It's literally free and, at the very least, you'll walk away feeling more empowered and confident about your financial future.
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Link is in our show notes.
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Go schedule your call today.
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I love that.
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I don't know why that wasn't in your bio.
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First off, let's start there.
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Second of all, we just had Veterans Day, so thank you for your service and I love that you had a friend.
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That was like go to the military, do this one specific thing.
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And now you're sitting where you're sitting.
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I mean that's pretty incredible.
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Changes the entire trajectory of my life.
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For any person out there, any young person that comes from a background that has their wanting for resources, I think it's a great opportunity to change your stars.
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It kind of fast tracks your progress towards things.
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So for me, fast tracks progress towards changing my life.
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And it shows up in different ways because when I was in law school, people they treat you differently when they find out you're in the military right and it's like oh, you've served your country and you deployed oh my God right.
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And they start making up hero stories about you and you're like dude, I sat in a sandbox in Iraq.
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I didn't really do nothing, but let me be clear.
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But they treat you like it's Hurt Locker and I'm like all right, cool, if that's what you want to believe, let's go.
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Right, oh, my gosh.
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All right.
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So that was a whole story I wasn't even prepared for, but thank you for sharing that.
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And thank you also for sharing that first money memory of kind of having a little bit of a run in with the law, because I think people listening you know, nobody's path is straight and I think when you have these conversations and quote unquote, people have made it.
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You know, people think that you just were on the straight line and you had all the resources around you in the world, and I think that that's just not the reality from all the conversations we've had.
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And so thank you for being vulnerable and sharing that with us as well.
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I appreciate it.
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I think it's super important to share those things because, like, people will see you today and they can't even possibly think of another world in which you came from, and I was like yo, this is like I'm still trying to adapt to this world.
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I'm in now Like I can't believe this stuff is real, and but then it's cool too, because it's like that's one of the beautiful things about being in America is that you can change your stars like that If you just apply yourself and a lot of things go your way, because some things didn't have to go my way.
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Yeah, that's awesome.
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How did you go into student loan law?
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I mean, like you said, it's a niche.
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Nobody else really is in it.
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Take us through that journey.
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It did start off where I was a consumer law practitioner and we realized that I saw that there weren't people solving student loan problems.
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But then there's a difference between recognizing a problem and figuring out that there's a solution that could be monetized.
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And so I set out to say, oh, I want to help people with student loans.
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But OK, what does that actually even mean?
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And at the time there was one piece of material from this advocacy group called the National Consumer Law Center.
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They have a student loan Bible.
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So I bought that book and it's like 300 pages and I just read it back to front and I was like, okay, I got it, but now you have the math, you don't have the art of doing it right.
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You know the signs, you just don't have how to apply it in real practice.
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And I needed people to kind of help me do that.
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And I started working with my bankruptcy clients and said, okay, let me see what I can do with these student loans.
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But I still hadn't figured out a way to monetize it.
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Because it's like, oh, you could do a lot of this stuff yourself.
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And it wasn't until I was sitting in Jiffy Lube and I was getting oil change and I remember paying for the oil change.
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I was like wait, I could have did this oil change myself.
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Where they didn't want to deal with themselves, they wanted someone else to handle it for them.
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And I kind of made that pivot and kind of unlocked things for me to say, if I'm going to do this, the way that I position myself is to provide a superior customer service experience for that person.
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Experience for that person, and initially I was focused on solutions.
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But over time I learned student loan debt is such an emotional thing that really what you're solving for is how they feel about their debt, about their outcome and their possibilities in life.
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And if we focus on that part, you're really doing that person justice because you're unlocking the future for them.
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So we just had Adrian Heinzon, who's a bankruptcy attorney, and we talked about that unsecured debt, the credit cards, medical loans, et cetera.
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But we did touch on the fact that in most bankruptcies, the student loans do not go away, and so we'd love to understand, from your bankruptcy background and experience there, what was it about the student loans that, aside from just the vast amount of debt that people are carrying, that people were coming to you for, when it comes to that customer service aspect, were they just not getting good information on how to do repayments, not getting good information?
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on how to do repayments or yeah, kind of like what's your like, what is the avatar that's coming to you for these types of services?
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Yeah, the avatar has changed over time as historically it was someone that was in default.
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They were trying to deal with a private student loan.
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They were struggling with the student loan payment.
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So they have this pressing need that they're trying to solve financially Over the last four years with Biden's forgiveness programs and kind of the roller coaster there.
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It's what the hell am I missing out on?
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Because I feel like I'm missing something because my loans have not been forgiven.
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And that is more of an analysis of okay, where do your loans fit into all these available programs.
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And also not just putting that person in the right position, but helping them find the signal inside of the noise because there is a lot of noise out there and they see their classmates or their friend on Facebook getting their loans forgiven and yet they feel like they're in the same situation but their loans aren't and helping put in context what's happening, what the problem is.
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And they're not getting great information from the servicer or the Department of Education.
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But I tell them a lot of times you're not talking to a highly skilled individual, you're really talking to someone who is fundamentally different, like the same as the person who handed you your takeout order.
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They're just following what's on the screen in front of them.
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And this is the most complex consumer loan product in the world, bar none but the people navigating that, the people piloting it for you.
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They aren't skilled.
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Yeah, that's such a hard thing because with the clients I have that still have student loans, when we're going over certain things and I'm saying like hey, you do need to call into your area of service, I'm like I know it's going to be a headache.
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I'm prefacing this.
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I know you're probably it's the worst.
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You might want to do it twice because to make sure you get the accurate information or we schedule a time where I'm on the call with you.
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But you're right, like it's just so hard and from my experience as well, as far as like what I see, like a lot of people are consuming information off of social media and I've only ever seen maybe one social media account that provides, you know, good, accurate information and everything else is just like crap.
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It truly is.
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And there's a lot of apples to apples belief comparison and when I tell people one small fact can change the entire analysis of your situation.
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But we don't want to believe that.
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We just want to believe oh, I have this debt, I've had it for a long time, it should be gone.
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And it doesn't work like that.
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And I want to say this one more time this federal student loan system is the most complex consumer loan product in the world.
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You have all this interest capitalization with forbearance.
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You can change repayment terms anytime you want.
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You can consolidate and reset everything, you can take out new loans freely and add to that as well, and you can carry that debt forever.
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And it changes hands from servicer to servicer and details get lost.
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Oh, and, by the way, we have all these different forgiveness programs that have all these other requirements and tripwires inside of there as well.
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How do we begin to deal with this?
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I don't know.
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It feels so complicated.
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Yeah, it's so complicated and, like you said, there's so many programs, we all feel like we're missing out on something.
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Did we miss the deadlines?
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Why do the deadlines change so much?
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I mean it's really.
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I mean I understand why people just stick their head in the sand and say, oh, I'm just going to die with these loans, because it almost sounds like the better option than to face it head on and have these terrible conversations with people who don't understand why we're calling in.
00:18:49.884 --> 00:18:52.030
And I mean it's really just a terrible system.
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It is, and I think the hard part is and the people with student loan debt are.
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Often they tell themselves, hey, I'm really smart, I'm good at my job, I can figure out all of my other part of my life.
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I can't figure out the student loan thing.
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And they begin to think something is wrong with them.
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It's kind of like Lord of the Rings Frodo didn't just go on his journey by himself, he had to have Gandalf with him.
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You need someone that understands how to navigate the system.
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And that's not like a plug for me or any other professional, it's just.
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The truth of the matter is that this is not like your mortgage.
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It is not like your car note those have very simple amortization schedules that you pay off over time.
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This is the only debt that you know of that has all these different repayment terms, forgiveness programs associated with them and, by the way, different loan types, depending on when you went to school.
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If you don't have those right loan types, for example, there's a bunch of people who got left out of the public service loan forgiveness program because they had these older federal student loans made under a different loan program.
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They didn't know that they're like I work in public service.
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I got federal loans.
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My loan should be forgiven.
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No, actually you're in the wrong repayment plan.
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You have the wrong loan type.
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You didn't do this, this or this.
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And yeah, we made it clear to you, but you're not thinking about that because you're just putting your head down working, doing your job.
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Wow.
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Jess has no know what you just said, but that one was missed.
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You have seen other hero journey stories where the hero always starts off not knowing what to do and some old dude comes along and is like yo, just do this.
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And gives them the courage along the way.
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Yes, no, I totally got the metaphor of like you're holding people's hands, guiding them into, you know, the new galaxy of no student loans.
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Honestly, it's the same thing with just like a lot of finances in general, because I have clients that I consider infinitely smarter than me.
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You know like I have clients that are surgeons and stuff like that, and they're like I don't understand this.
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I was like, well, you were never.
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We were never taught this, so that's the only reason it's like you're not.
