Transcript
WEBVTT
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In today's episode, brandon and I are going to give a little teaser of what our postnuptial agreement process has been like.
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So we're going to talk about some of the information that was gathered by Aaron Thomas, our attorney, from prenupscom, as well as our decisions to go forward with this after almost nine years of marriage, if this is of interest to you this is an episode that you don't want to miss.
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Hey babe, what are we talking about today?
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Today we are getting into a high level overview of our post-nuptial agreement process that we started and are almost done with, because it's been really fast.
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Yeah, for those people out there who aren't quite sure what a post-nup is, it's very similar to a prenup.
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Only difference is that you do it after you're actually married.
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Yes, so this was not on our radar.
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No, not at all.
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I mean when we were getting married, because like also we at all.
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I mean when we were getting married Because, like also we had nothing.
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I mean, that's not true.
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Well, we also now know that that's not the right thought process.
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That's true.
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But as far as you know what we knew about prenups, or our preconceived notions about a prenup, we were like you know, we don't have a bunch of stuff, we don't plan on getting divorced, whatever and it was nothing that we even discussed or even honestly even thought about.
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Right, and it's certainly not something that our parents talked about, which is interesting because both of our parents are divorced and I know that now that you know, we know what we know about it, we're going through this process.
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It's absolutely something that I think I mean I will be.
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I don't know about you, but I will be recommending to our children if and when that time comes, because it just makes sense.
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You know I'm going to be recommending because our kids are going to be millionaires way before we were.
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Well, that's true too, yes, so one of the things that I thought was really interesting is when Aaron, on a previous episode we'll link it in the show notes talked to us about the fact that when you get married, your state writes you a prenup, so everybody has one.
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You just either get to decide to write the rules or you have the rules written for you, and once he said that I was like I don't want other people especially not the state of North Carolina writing my rules.
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That was actually the perfect like the way he framed it, like immediately once he said that, it completely changed my thought process, before we even got into the deeper details.
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Because, like you said, if you have the ability to spill out the rules yourself, why would you not do that?
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Exactly I, we, I don't know that we've ever actually asked each other like, hey, why do you now want the, the, the post-snap?
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But I think after that episode we both looked at each other like, yeah, we have to do the postnup.
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This just makes sense.
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But is there any particular reason you were so amicable to moving forward in this process?
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Well, in all honesty, like obviously I don't see us getting divorced because I'm not, you'd have to like leave me and I would just follow afterwards and not let you leave.
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But the reality is that we don't know.
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You know, I'm a product of my mom's, been married several times and divorced several times, and even if you're going in with the best of intentions, the best idea that you're going to be with this person forever, you honestly just don't know.
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So why not make sure that, in the event, if it does happen that we have already talked about it and spelled out everything as far as what would happen from a financial standpoint when we're on good terms we're on great terms because we're not even thinking about a divorce why not do it then?
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Yeah, it really is.
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I'm kind of considering it an insurance policy.
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Right, we have car insurance.
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I don't ever want to use my car insurance because that means something went wrong.
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So I'm really just kind of putting it in our back pocket as an insurance policy that, you know, we hope to honestly forget about, in the sense that you know we're not going to use it.
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But I do think it provides not only clarity, because you do have to disclose your assets, your liabilities, which we'll get into that there were no surprises for us, obviously but I think it also gives a really good forum for meaningful discussion, especially at our age.
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So one of the things that we talked about, for example, is what if one of our parents needs to move in with us?
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How do we handle that?
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How do we broach that conversation?
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What are the financial implications?
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Would we be tapping into their retirement, making sure that all of their health benefits are, you know, being utilized, like?
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How will something like that affect our finances?
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What do we do if it's your parent?
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What do we do if it's my parent, you know?
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And so these are conversations that, as we get older, we've, you know, we've had that, that sandwich generation episode.
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These are things that we need to talk about, because we know people who have parents living with them.
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You know, some of them had a discussion.
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Some of them, you know, that parent just kind of showed up and hasn't left, and that's not how we want to do things, not if you want to stay married.
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So, you know, it really gives you an opportunity to talk about those things and to outline your expectations and, you know, kind of paint a clearer picture of how you would want to handle these different situations, which I really like.
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Have you been listening to our podcast and wondering how am I really doing with my money?
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Am I doing the right things with my investments?
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Am I on track to reach my financial goals?
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What could I be doing better?
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If you answered yes to any of these questions, then it's time for you to reach out to Brandon to schedule your free yes, I said free 30-minute introduction conversation to see how his services could help make you the more confident moneymaker we know you could be.
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What are you waiting for?
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It's literally free and, at the very least, you'll walk away feeling more empowered and confident about your financial.
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Link is in our show notes.
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Go, schedule your call today.
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And I didn't see us being together forever.
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But once again, I can't predict the future.
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I do know that, like God forbid that something happened and we did end up getting divorced.
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I know that we would exhaust every possibility to stay together and just for whatever reason it would be, it just wouldn't work out.
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But that's also one of the reasons why I was open to it, because also one of the things too is that I think in America specifically, but also just across the world, when divorce happens it tends to hinder the female more.
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Yes, it has a more negative impact on a woman's finances moving forward in her life than the man's.
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And so in that scenario, I don't want to be the person that's dragging my feet for having this conversation and putting this in place, when I know that you know, statistically speaking, it affects her more.
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So I want her to understand, I want her just to feel that I was on board to make sure that, if whatever happens to us, that she's also protected in the things that she needs.
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Yeah, and I do appreciate that because and we'll again, we're going to do an expanded episode, but just again high level you disclose your assets, your liabilities, you talk about what, what kind of debts you know in your liabilities.
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For example, do they go to spouse number one, do they go to spouse number two?
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You're filling out this kind of assessment type document and there are times where you know I have debt, that is my debt.
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Brandon doesn't have any debt.
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There's other times where it's like, well, you know, the house is in my name, the mortgage is in my name, but that is a combined debt Just because Brandon's on the deed.
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If he wanted to up and leave, like technically that mortgage has nothing to do with him, but now in our postnuptial agreement, no, that is a liability for him and we will need to figure out what to do with that together.
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And so even within that process, there's a, you know, first right of refusal, like do we both want to sell the house and we just split it all down the middle.
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Do you want to buy the house from me?
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You know, there's those kinds of rules that you can outline as well, which I think is really important.
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I think one of the other things is again, our parents are getting older.
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Inheritances right.
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Is their property?
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Is their land, are their assets?
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Is there a big inheritance coming your way?
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Even if there's not a big inheritance right, is it yours?
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yeah, and so like, yeah, especially like, so, like I mean I'm fortunate since that my mom has done very well for herself.
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But part of the um post-nuptial agreement was that anything that I inherit from my mom stays on you know from our parents or from our parents any kind of inheritance?
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Yeah, so if I, you know, if I whatever here from my mom or my parents and she inherits from her parents in the event of a divorce, we we each keep our own inheritance right.
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It's not split right and of course again, we are very much of the mindset of any inheritance that comes our way is our family.
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Well, it's our family inheritance right.
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Like because we we pull our money and it's it's our money, not his and mine.
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But in the event that we were to get divorced, yeah, we want to make sure that those things stay within our quote unquote.
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You know, sides of the family.
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So I guess in a sense, Is that?
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I don't know.
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I guess I think that's maybe how they define it, like it stays in my bloodline because we don't our kids share our blood, but you and I don't share blood, obviously because we're not related.
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Okay, I don't remember seeing bloodline anything on the paperwork, but again, you get to.
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It really is about you making the rules.
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One of the other things that we talked extensively about that is not technically part of the postnuptial agreement but was important to us, are things that would happen with the children.
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So, for example, would we want some sort of counseling or mediator to be involved to help us with the children in explaining to them what the separation is, what this divorce is, how we're going to be handling time, you know, together as individuals, et cetera.
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Even before that, we have in the post-nuptial agreement um information about as far as having counseling sessions like how many counseling sessions we would have before we actually reached that final decision of divorce.
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Yeah, how many counseling sessions and how long to accomplish those counseling sessions.
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There was also a question about can anybody at any time initiate and ask for counseling so you can select yes, no or unsure, and then you can talk to the attorney about it.
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So those are things where, you know, at this point we're almost nine years into our marriage If Brandon came to me or if I came to him and I said, hey, you know, I think we need some counseling these are areas that I would like to improve upon At this stage I would expect my spouse, my partner, the love of my life, to say great, let's get help right.
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And for there not to be any kind of pushback.
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And so you can designate hey, if somebody starts counseling, you know, initiates a request for counseling, it is respected.
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It is now part of our contract.
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And then, how many sessions?
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How long do you have to complete it?
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Um, you could even probably put stipulations in there on who finds the counselor right, because I know I've heard situations where it's oh well, we went to her counselor and she that woman was clearly on her side and it didn't go well.
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Okay, if I initiate counseling, you get to pick the counselor right.
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Whatever the rules are that I think will make you happy and help you reach your goals of hopefully staying married.
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You can write those in there.
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The other thing I was going to say about the kids is, again, you can't put things in about the children but, for example, a general kind of clause of hey, if you started dating somebody, again, you know, here are the stipulations for introducing new people.
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Or, oh, money's tight, you've got to get a roommate.
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Okay, so now you have a roommate living with you, but your kids are with you every other week, right, what does that look like?
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So what are those rules for introducing new people, bringing new people into the home?
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I mean, those are things where we kind of put them under almost like a respect clause of here's what I expect you to do in this situation, out of respect for our previous relationship and out of the safety and respect for our children.
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So I really enjoyed this conversation and the thoughts that you know came up and the conversation that was sparked.
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Was there anything surprising to you that came up, or I wouldn't say there's anything surprising, because one we have these conversations in general, so nothing was surprising as far as how when we were talking through it.
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So nothing was surprising as far as how when we were talking through it.
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I would say for those people out there that have that feeling that, oh you know, having a conversation like this is bad luck and it's kind of putting a dark cloud on your marriage, to begin with, I'm like to each their own.
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I don't think, if that's what you really think, that I can change your mind.
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But there was nothing grim about the conversation.
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There was nothing down about the conversation, because also, too, is that a lot of the conversation can also revolve around actually like filter into how you're going to actually work together in your marriage.
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Yeah, like, how are you going to have your money meetings?
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What are you going to talk about in your money meetings?
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That was a big section.
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Is you know what are the things that you will disclose in your meetings and how often?
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You know, will you have them or no?
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I don't want to have them, right.
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Because even what part of the meeting.
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So, like before Justin and I were kind of doing when it comes to paying household bills, we had a joint account but it was just a joint savings account and we have our own individual checking accounts and we were each paying our own designated bills that we had talked about beforehand and that kind of left us open to a lack of visibility on both ends that when we talk through it we're like it doesn't make sense.
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We probably should go ahead and have a joint checking account and then change our process for putting all the money into the joint checking account and then everything coming out of there, so that it gives us a clear visibility of what everything's being paid for.
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And it's also just from a planning standpoint when we have our money meetings if there's any adjustments that we want to make when it comes to hey, maybe we're spending a little bit too much money here, let's cut back here so that we can put this money to better use for us.
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That came out through having the conversations for the post and upup agreement.
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Yeah, because we talked about do we want to do inside out, outside in, how do we resource the money?
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Do we want to do a percentage?
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I'm, at this point, still the higher earner, so I naturally pay for more things, but we decided that it just doesn't feel natural to do like this weird you pay 40%, I pay 60%, you pay 30%.
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That's just not how we operate.
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Now what we did decide is that I would get a larger quote unquote amount of money as my individual spending money.
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So that's something that we're still going to have to talk about, but Brandon doesn't really spend very much money anyway, so that was a very natural kind of like yep, that makes sense.
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All right, you know also the thing is, too, is that when you're having these conversations with your spouse, there's a way that I believe that is a much more efficient way to focus on it.
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So you have your when it comes back to budgeting.
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You have your, your needs.
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These are the things that you're going to have to pay your rent, mortgage, utilities, food, stuff of that nature and then you can have a joint savings goal.
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So you guys talk about it, look at your finance and see what could be a percentage of the household income that can go towards savings, whether that's just going into a high yield savings account or that's in taking to account what's going to retirement accounts like a 401k plan or an IRA, and you come to agreement upon that.
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Now the other percentage of any money that's left is is worth discretionary spending so it makes it easier.
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We're like I don't like obviously, jess makes more money than I do, but I'm not sitting here and nickeling diming as far as like hey, you're spending too much money on this one.
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That just naturally isn't who she is.
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That wouldn't work well for you.
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Well, one that just naturally also who she is.
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That wouldn't work well for you.
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Also, like I said, we've had these conversations leading up to marriage.
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These weren't just things that we didn't talk about.
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And then, all of a sudden, we're married and then we're combining our finances and we're just now finding out these habits about each other.
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We already have these conversations, so it makes it a lot easier for us, but I think for those individuals who maybe haven't had these conversations, it's also another helpful framework to have them.
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Yeah, and then you have a mediator.
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You have somebody who's like guiding you through and holding your hand Now for us, you know, as you're going through the form, basically what you're putting in is what are your assets, what are the last four digits of that account number and what's the current value?
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Right so assets digits of that account number and what's the current value?
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Right?
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So assets, liabilities, et cetera.
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So that's.
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I mean, that's super easy If you already know all of your accounts and you can easily pull up the statements, get the last four digits, you know what's in your 401k and your IRA, et cetera.
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I mean it took me 20 minutes to fill out my portion and most of your portion and then I said, hey, you have these four sections where you need to fill in this, this and that.
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Right, but it was, it was really simple, I think.
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Really, the bigger parts are like how do you want to manage those things?
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And really and I don't know how you feel about it but we kept our finances separate for so long again, separate, not secret separate.
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But then once we had kids, it was you know the expenses.
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Just, they are just constantly rolling in, even when it's something little like.
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You know, I wrote two checks last week for the fundraiser of the classroom photos, right Like those.
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That was not in my budget.
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That was not an on a line item.
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You know that's $20 out the door right there.
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Then you've got the summer camps and the track out camps and you handle all those things too, also like so that's coming out of my quote-unquote account.
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So, yes, it looks like I'm spending right.
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It looks like I'm the one who's shopping because the amazon boxes have my name on them, but it's mostly you're the one buying the stuff for the kids.
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yeah, yeah I mean they're growing like weeds.
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Their feet are growing.
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They need, you know, like it's all the things.
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So right now, for where we are and I don't see that changing it just makes sense to put all the money in one pot take out what we need for our bills, for our savings and retirement, and then the rest, you know, gets split up for what we want.
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But I think it's been really eye opening, not only how easy the process is, but also, you know, obviously I'm thankful that we're on the same page about so many things.
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But I really want to encourage people who are thinking about this.
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You know, it's a great way to start the conversation, but if you frame it in the sense of you're writing your own rules instead of letting the state write your rules, then it's not this I want to keep my thing to myself or I want to keep this away from you, Right?
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That's not.
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That's not the undertone.
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The undertone is we have, we're happily married.
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The state is going to decide our fate if we don't write our own rules, so let's write our own rules.
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I honestly think the way that you framed it, saying like you look at it as insurance, is very accurate.
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Thank you.
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We have life insurance, obviously with the type of life insurance we have, but so we have term life insurance and the only way that it's used is one of us dies Pay for it every month.
00:19:32.045 --> 00:19:34.641
Don't like paying for it, but I also hope to never use it.
00:19:34.641 --> 00:19:36.403
Same Don't like paying for it, but you know I also hope to never use it.
00:19:36.403 --> 00:19:38.265
Same ideas with the post-nuptial agreement.
00:19:38.265 --> 00:19:47.435
You know we hope to never actually have to use it, but there's also in this scenario, like I said, there's more benefits that can be taken from it, even if you're not getting divorced.
00:19:47.695 --> 00:19:57.480
Yeah, well, and think about how much time people spend in mediation going back and forth, and this person wants this.
00:19:57.480 --> 00:20:01.548
I mean you never feel like you got what you quote unquote deserve in a divorce this way, you know.
00:20:01.548 --> 00:20:03.071
I mean your business is yours.
00:20:03.071 --> 00:20:10.142
You don't want me coming for your business because all of a sudden I'm angry and I'm like well, actually I was with him, you know, started from the bottom.
00:20:10.142 --> 00:20:17.388
Now we're here, like you owe me 50%, like no, what we put in the post-nup is Oak City Financial is 100% Brandon's business.
00:20:17.388 --> 00:20:21.313
Any money that comes in from the Sugar Daddy podcast is split 50-50,.
00:20:21.313 --> 00:20:36.520
Right, we're writing those rules that matter to us and that way, if which again, we hope it never happens but if, in the event that it did, our rules are written and there are no questions and you can't change your mind now that you're pissed off and bitter and angry.
00:20:36.520 --> 00:20:43.367
No, we made these rules while respect is high, love is high and we hope to never use them.
00:20:44.368 --> 00:20:49.413
Also, too, you also have to remember that part of the post-nuptial, or even prenup, agreement.
00:20:49.413 --> 00:20:54.258
You have to think that where you're at today isn't where you're going to be 20 years from now from a financial standpoint.
00:20:54.500 --> 00:20:56.523
That was really impactful when he said that.
00:20:56.724 --> 00:21:00.733
So you might be getting ready to get married and you're, like you know, neither one of us have anything.
00:21:00.733 --> 00:21:02.664
We don't really have any assets.
00:21:02.766 --> 00:21:03.407
It's not really a big deal.
00:21:03.407 --> 00:21:04.590
Got $3 in my 401k.
00:21:04.859 --> 00:21:07.028
But that doesn't mean that's how it's going to be 20 years from now.
00:21:07.028 --> 00:21:24.247
You know, for example, like say, you're getting ready to get married and one of you is going to be a, the one spouse can make a significant amount of money and it's just easier for the relationship.
00:21:24.247 --> 00:21:38.967
Now you don't have anything today, but writing into the post-nup or pre-nup can make a big difference in what would happen if 20, 25 years from now you got separated, especially for the parent, more often the woman who would decide to be the stay-at-home parent.
00:21:39.186 --> 00:21:41.722
Yeah, I think that's what's really also important.
00:21:41.722 --> 00:21:45.263
Like if you know that you want to be the stay at home parent, right?
00:21:45.263 --> 00:21:53.429
Like I have friends in my circle who that is all they've wanted to not all that they wanted to be, but like they did not have grand career aspirations.
00:21:53.429 --> 00:21:55.936
They wanted to be a mother right, which is great.
00:21:55.936 --> 00:21:57.200
It's the hardest job on the planet.
00:21:57.200 --> 00:22:05.039
But if that relationship doesn't work out, then what right you haven't had 20 or 30 years to build up that 401k or that retirement?
00:22:05.039 --> 00:22:13.567
You can write rules that say, hey, every paycheck I get 8%, 10% in my retirement account as well, right?
00:22:13.587 --> 00:22:16.750
Yeah, because you have spousal IRAs for the stay-at-home spouse.
00:22:16.750 --> 00:22:17.451
That isn't working.
00:22:21.535 --> 00:22:22.955
They have a spousal IRA that you can contribute money to.
00:22:22.955 --> 00:22:25.856
Right, you should have your savings account, you should have your retirement accounts.
00:22:25.856 --> 00:22:44.805
Like, you are contributing a significant amount of value to the home and you shouldn't be left high and dry if that relationship doesn't work out, because while you know that partner was getting their medical degree, you were, you know, tending to the home, feeding the children, making sure everything was okay, everybody's, you know, thriving.
00:22:44.805 --> 00:22:46.185
That has value.
00:22:46.185 --> 00:22:49.867
You should have something at the end to speak for it.
00:22:50.748 --> 00:22:55.509
And I can't say enough about working with Aaron Thomas Like so easy.
00:22:55.509 --> 00:23:15.606
I also like that, like he obviously with you know his experience, you know Harvard degree, he has all that comes with being a great attorney, but then he also has those soft people skills also which for some of you individuals out there that maybe have worked with an attorney sometimes they're not there the bedside manner is not there.
00:23:17.578 --> 00:23:21.477
And depending on the reason that you're going to, the attorney and type of law they practice, maybe they don't necessarily need to be there.
00:23:21.477 --> 00:23:37.666
I think in this scenario it could be very helpful because it is a quote unquote taboo subject matter, especially with the prenup and postnup, because people aren't you know, they're not divorced at this point in time and having those soft skills makes the conversation so much easier.
00:23:37.666 --> 00:23:49.907
And I can't say enough about the interactions that we've always had with him, even just from the interviewing standpoint and explaining to us in a previous podcast about why prenups and postnups are important to us actually going through the process with him.
00:23:50.409 --> 00:23:51.330
Yeah, absolutely.
00:23:51.330 --> 00:23:53.013
That is a great call out.
00:23:53.013 --> 00:23:56.625
He is so personable, so informational.
00:23:56.625 --> 00:24:07.579
You know he'll even throw in information of things that him and his wife have put into their prenup Right, and she's an attorney as well, and so you get that personalized.
00:24:07.840 --> 00:24:23.346
You know experience, which I think is wonderful, and you know it's one thing to say, well, here's what most people do, but it's one it's a different thing to hear, Well, here's what me and my wife did, right, Like, I think, being vulnerable and opening up and really sharing kind of that real world.
00:24:23.346 --> 00:24:29.823
I think experience and how that plays out within their marriage, I think is really interesting.
00:24:29.823 --> 00:24:31.788
So we don't want to give it all away.
00:24:31.788 --> 00:24:33.318
This was just a teaser episode.
00:24:33.318 --> 00:24:36.886
We have more to come and we'll really structure it out for you.
00:24:37.015 --> 00:24:53.660
But one thing that if there's a takeaway from this is if you're thinking about approaching your partner and saying, hey, I think we should get a prenup right if you're in that engagement stage, or we should do a postnup, whether you've been married for one, 10, 100 years, right, it doesn't matter.
