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Discover the inspiring story of Jacqueline Rodgers, the founder of Greentop Gifts, as she shares her mission behind creating a diverse holiday experience for Black and brown people everywhere. Her Santa-inspired wrapping paper, featuring Clarence Claus, a Black Santa, is a testament to her entrepreneurial spirit and dedication to the cause. Jessica and Brandon dive in to Jacqueline’s journey, from vision to tangible product, now on retail shelves, like Target. From designing her first two sku’s, to securing manufacturers, getting into retail, and writing grants, to being featured in Essence, People, and O, The Oprah Magazine, this is more than “just” wrapping paper and family jammies. It’s a conversation about diversity, the importance of representation and a deep dive into the highs and lows of entrepreneurship. Tis the season for this dynamic conversation, you won’t want to miss.
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Connect with Jacqueline and Greentop Gifts below:
website | email | facebook | twitter | instagram | pinterest | youtube
FedEx Small Business Grant: https://www.fedex.com/en-us/small-business/grant-contest.html
Boss Women Media:
https://bosswomen.org/
NFL PA
https://nflpa.com/
Target Accelerators Program: https://targetaccelerators.com/happenings/news/2023-target-accelerators-applications-now-open/
Bey GOOD:
https://beygood.org/
So I kind of came to me watching sports center or PTI and I was like I think I'm going to like go to Kinko's and make some paper and then I might sell it. And he was like, okay, and that was it. That was the end of the conversation. Like he was like this is another, another activity. Then I was like, okay, I have found a manufacturer, they're going to deliver. An 18 wheeler is going to deliver two pallets of product to our garage. We got to move our cars out of the garage and he was like wait a minute, uh huh. And so then I am the creative, my husband is the finance background. So you know, you know he's like he has questions. Explain this to me If it makes sense. Show me the number. Is there a spreadsheet? Yeah, give me a spreadsheet. Roi, he would sell all the size of the market sizes. You know all of that. What are the?
Speaker 2:margins. Are we showing off that MBA of his, you know? Oh yeah, so he's going to like I'm like glitter confetti.
Speaker 1:He's like what's the ROI? So we're a great match for that.
Speaker 2:I was going to say that makes a really good pair.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it makes a good pair. But that was kind of how we started the business to SKUs. I shipped orders out of the garage. I wanted it in 15 and launched the business in 16. So it really came from a need of wanting my son to see diverse images.
Speaker 2:Yeah, hey everyone, welcome to the Sugar Daddy podcast. I'm Jessica and I'm Brandon, and we're the Norwoods, a husband and wife team here to demystify the realm of dollars so it all makes sense while giving you a glimpse into our relationship with money and each other. We are so glad you're here. Let's get started.
Speaker 3:Our content is intended to be used, and must be used, for information purposes only. It is very important to do your own analysis before making any investment based upon your own personal circumstances. You should take independent financial advice from a licensed professional in connection with or independently research and verify any information you find in our podcast and we should rely upon, whether for the purpose of making an investment decision or otherwise.
Speaker 4:Hey babe, what are we talking about today?
Speaker 2:Today we are talking about Black Santas and I'm so excited because, well, you know, I always start with I'm so excited, but I really genuinely am always so excited about our guests because I just love our guests. And today we have Jacqueline Rogers, who is the founder of Green Top Gifts, and I'm really thrilled because everything that Green Top Gifts does is for Black and Brown families, and so we are going into the holiday season. This is the time to get your wrapping paper. Don't show up at Target three days before Christmas, y'all. What are you doing? You're not going to get the wrapping paper and all the bows and all the things that you want. Okay, you need to be doing that in October. I'm pretty much done. All right, you know me OCD type A neurotic. I'm done. I got all the things I need. Our Christmas jammies are in the drawer, okay, I didn't even know that. But you're welcome. But if you don't have your life together, okay, then you can go and buy all the Green Top Gifts and wrapping papers and family jammies and all the things with Black and Brown Santa and faces on them. So I'm so excited, jackie, thank you for being with us today to talk about Green Top Gifts and Black Santa and all the things. I'm so thrilled.
Speaker 1:Thanks so much for having me, you guys.
Speaker 2:Okay, let's get into this bio so that you know a little bit more about Jacqueline, and then we'll get into the first money memory, because you know we like to keep it consistent. But let's get into it. Backed by her 14 years of consumer packaged goods experience, jacqueline Rogers founded Green Top Gifts with a purpose to create products that represent what the holidays look like for Black and Brown families. Jacqueline and Green Top Gifts have been leading the charge of diversity in classic holiday imagery and have gone on to be recognized as one of the 2021 Google for Startups Black Founders Fund recipients, a 2021 FedEx Small Business Grant winner and an NFLPA playmaker. Since its launch, green Top Gifts has received notable media attention from numerous outlets, including Essence, oh, the Oprah Magazine, good Housekeeping and People. Jacqueline embarked on her entrepreneurial journey in order to add much needed diversity and representation to consumer goods. She has a degree in business administration from Clark Atlanta University I saw you at homecoming and currently serves as a mentor for Atlanta Techstars. She is married to Sean Rogers and together they have a nine year old son, kenneth Elijah, and a four year old daughter, cameron Ellis. Welcome, jackie, thank you for being here.
Speaker 1:Thanks for having me.
Speaker 2:Okay, so there's a lot to unpack here. We're going to get into all the Green Top Gifts and where this idea came from and then get into your business journey, but first we want to know about your first money memory.
Speaker 1:My first funny money memory, I would say, is my uncle had this magic trick where he would pull quarters out of my ears and I think that as a small kid that's probably my first time being like oh, money can come out of your ears, you can have it, and my uncle is the magician. That would probably be the first one as a really young kid. The second one, I would say, where I really started to understand money and like buying things, getting money, counting money, was when I saw girl's got cookies in kindergarten. Okay, that is when I was like, oh, this is how this works. I have a whole bunch of money and I have collected and people gave it to me and they want cookies and like counting it and be responsible for it. So that would probably be my. The one that made the most sense to me was that.
Speaker 4:I was a Cub Scout. I always felt that we got the short end of the stick because we had to sell popcorn, popcorn. You guys got the nobody wanted popcorn. It was overpriced popcorn that wasn't even that good, and then the girl's got to get the cookies.
Speaker 1:You know, and it hasn't improved, you guys are still selling popcorn.
Speaker 2:They're trying to stick with that consistency model, but I don't know if it's working.
Speaker 4:No, because nobody buys the popcorn.
Speaker 2:Did you? Did you realize that you don't get to keep the money and that it was going to the boxes of cookies? And then the girl scouts?
Speaker 1:Yes. And I realized that I was selling the most and my dad had an entrepreneurial spirit, wasn't entrepreneur, and so he. We had the town on lock. Okay, I was all the downtown, all the businesses, I sold all the cookies. But I had, I had a whole system and I was so excited to get the badge for top cookie seller because we sold a lot of cookies. So for me. I understood I couldn't keep it, but I knew there was a reward if I sold a lot and got a lot of money.
Speaker 2:Those are. I love the, the quarters out of the ears, cause, like, who doesn't love that? And then the business side of it of like, okay, I'm selling, people are giving me money, I'm exchanging it for a product and I get an accolade, right, if I do this really well. So that's a lot of valuable lessons wrapped in one. So it definitely was yeah. Okay, let's go into green top and the start of that journey. Because, just for for reference, jackie's husband, sean, is a former boss of mine. Shout out to Sean, great leader, great mentor. Um, and he was telling me about what you guys were doing in the very beginning and it just sounded so inspiring, so exciting, so necessary. Right, like, santas everywhere are white. Every you know it's a white face and a white beard and a red hat. And so when he was telling us about what you're working on and the wrapping paper, I was like, oh my gosh, how is this not a thing? Right, like it was probably I don't know 20, 2018, 2019 at the time, and I was like, how do we not have black Santas?
Speaker 4:on our wrapping paper. So if you're someone that got upset over the little mermaid being black, or you get upset about a black Santa Claus, go ahead and turn off this episode. Yeah, cause this is not Log off. Log off.
Speaker 2:We don't want you here. Okay, bye. Um, so I just remember, like him, just bragging about you in the office and just being really proud of of what you were doing. So tell us where the idea came from and how you turned it into a tangible product.
Speaker 1:Of course I will definitely let Shana that you said he's an awesome boss, uh, some things that go that way. So I let him know. Um, but no, for it really started with. I love the holidays. Growing up, my mom was super intentional about making sure we had black angels, black nativity scenes, black Santas, and a lot of the products didn't exist, so she was literally painting them with markers, with acrylic paint, whatever my mom could find, to make sure we had representation. She did it. So for me and my house it was. It was the standard, it was required, like I was accustomed to it. So once I had my son, I wanted to kind of have those same memories and moments with him, and they were figuring. You could find a few of those ceramics, but not wrapping paper, not pajamas. There was a limited amount of items that were in the space, and so I'm a crafty person. I am always starting some obnoxiously expensive hobby with crafts that my husband hates Uh, I'll say he hates these Like oh, what are you? What are you doing now? What are you buying?
Speaker 2:Here we go again. What are you making?
Speaker 1:So I kind of came to him we were watching sports center or PTI and I was like I think I'm going to like go to Kinko to make some wrapping paper and then I might sell it. And he was like, okay, and that was it. That was the end of the conversation. Like he was like this is another activity. Then I was like, okay, I have found a manufacturer they're going to deliver an 18 wheeler is going to deliver two pallets of product to our garage. We got to move our cars out of the garage and he was like wait a minute, huh. And so then I am the creative, my husband is the finance background. So you know, you know he's like he has questions. Explain this to me, if it makes sense. Show me the number. Is there a spreadsheet? Yeah, give me a spreadsheet. Roi, he would tell all the size of the market, size of you know all of that. What are the margins?
Speaker 2:Are we showing off that MBA of his?
Speaker 1:you know, oh yeah, so he's going to like I'm like glitter confetti and he's like what's the ROI? So we're a great match for that.
Speaker 2:I was going to say that makes a really good pair yeah.
Speaker 1:It makes a good pair. So that was kind of how we started the business Two skews. I shipped orders out of the garage. I wanted it in 15 and launched the business in 16. So it really came from a need of wanting my son to see diverse images. I love that.
Speaker 4:It's so interesting that you were saying that, like your mom used to paint the different figurines and stuff, because my grandmother used to. I remember we like once I got old enough to kind of, like you know, comprehend stuff she had a choir boys that she would like put out during the holidays you know big ones to put in the yard, and one of them was painted brown and I was like, where did you find a brown one? And she's like I painted this.
Speaker 1:So it's kind of funny you said that because we were doing the same thing your grandmother knew she wanted you to see a brown little choir boy of course, and all of the best businesses come out of necessity right. Oh 100%.
Speaker 4:Yeah, because you have much more passion for it, you know it's you yeah, you have a lot more invested in regards to the business you want to do when it comes out of something that you just genuinely are interested in.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and really in the beginning, when I first started looking for it and I was asking my friends like in DC and Detroit and Chicago areas that had a large more than carry, you know, like more black people than carry I was like, can you look for this, do you see it? And my friends were like, what are you working on? Because I'm not sure what you're working on, but I think I want whatever it is. And so that was kind of what they were saying. But for me, I didn't want to start a website, I really just wanted it for Eli. At the time it was not, it wasn't something I was going to like monetize. So once I started doing the work and understanding and focus groups with other moms, I was like, oh, other people want this too, it's not just my house.
Speaker 2:I love that. Ok, let's take it back to Kinko's, because that already tells us a time frame. Ok, I mean, is Kinko's? Do they even exist anymore?
Speaker 1:I don't know, and I still call it that, but I'm a FedEx partner. I'm sure they're not happy with that. But FedEx Kinko's FedEx print shop but I'm telling my age now Kinko's is what FedEx was before. It was FedEx print.
Speaker 2:Yeah, kinko's guys is a store that you could go into and you could ask them to print things and mail things and ship things. Yeah, for anybody who's maybe born in like the 2000s.
Speaker 4:Yeah, we have kids born in 2000.
Speaker 2:I'll listen to them. I applaud that yeah thank you.
Speaker 1:You're in the car. They're being forced to listen to you, maybe by their parents, Exactly.
Speaker 2:Thanks, mom and dad. So you went to Kinko's, you created how did you even create your prototype? Was it like clip art? I mean, walk us through that. I want beginning, beginning.
Speaker 1:OK. So I knew what I wanted him to like in my mind. I knew I wanted him to be jolly. I wanted him to resonate with adults and children. I wanted him to look magical and I wanted him to look brown. I wanted you to see him and I have any question about what this Anna was and I wanted his nose to be full. I wanted his cheeks to be jolly and red. I knew how I wanted his hair to look, so in my mind I could see it. I do not draw. I have taken drawing classes now that I've started this business and I have done a lot more understanding of the technical and illustrator and pro-crate and all of the online software so that I can better articulate my thoughts for the graphic designers that I work with. But I am not an artist at all, so for me, I know what I wanted to look like and I can kind of explain it. So I took other images of people real people of Santos. I like elements of different things and then I sent it all to the graphic designer, who was then Ghana at the time, and I said this is what I want to look like. Now, backing up, I found him after looking at hundreds of people's portfolios online. Like I would just scroll and comb the internet looking at artists and their work and trying to find someone who was similar to the aesthetic that I want. They may not even drew humans, they may have just drawn animals, but if I thought they could quite get me kind of get me there I reached out. So I reached out to him and told him what I was working on and he's like send me a deposit. And I was like OK, can I PayPal you? And he's like we don't have PayPal here. Can you use Western Union?
Speaker 2:And I was like we're dating ourselves again, Although Western Union does still exist.
Speaker 1:It's still around.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's still around.
Speaker 1:Before Cash App and Zill it was Western Union. You had to actually go into a store to do it. You cannot do it through a cell phone. It was invented before a cell phone. So I have to find a Western Union. I go to Walmart and Western Union wire money to a person I've never met before across the world. Ok, I'm very nervous about this. And I'm getting scammed, or this is going to be great One of the two, but it's a risk. A small amount of money, but a large enough for me to be like. I hope this is a real person, you could be your main prince. You said, we're right, a prince, an Algerian prince. He just happened to have money for me, so I sent him the money and he sent me back images and on the first iteration of it it was perfect. We made very minor detail changes and that's when I was like this is it? Like this is coming to life? And that's how Clarence Falls kind of came to be as an image.
Speaker 2:Oh my gosh, what a fantastic story. Ok, so you get your images from your prince in Ghana and I had to put that in there and then you go to Kinko's. Kinko's prints your paper, so I didn't quite go to Kinko's.
Speaker 1:So from there, after Kinko's, I worked with other artists and designers to kind of like it's a pattern, a repeating pattern, right? So for GIFRAP you've got to get it right. So at this point I found a manufacturer that I like and I found enough on YouTube University to understand the terms and to talk intelligently about the manufacturing of GIFRAP. I had enough knowledge to be dangerous, very dangerous. Ok. So I called him, pretended like I knew what I was talking about, and this guy took a great chance on me and he was like OK, yeah, and so he filled in the gaps in the holes for the things I didn't understand and explained it to me. He took a lot of patience with me. He sent me a template. He said send me your design, we'll make you a mock-up and a print. So I did that, got the design. Never had to go to Kinko's, thankfully. Send him. Well, I actually went to go and printed it off before I sent it to him as I could see it in big form, and then I sent it to him. He sent me back a sample in the mail and I was like this is perfect. And then I paid him and two pallets of paper showed up at my house a few months later.
Speaker 2:I love it OK. So also I want to address the fact that you're still working full time while doing all of this on the side I'm assuming before work, after work, lunch breaks You're just not sleeping anymore at this point, right yeah?
Speaker 4:At this point in time, you also have kids. I mean, you have kids, so therefore, it's also occupying your time.
Speaker 1:Yes, I have one. One is a whole lot easier than two. I'll say that, ok.
Speaker 4:And my first one is my son, but you only know that after you have two.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and my son, he is like even kill, super chill. Now my daughter. This business would have never happened if I had her too. Ok, like she is. See those second kids, whoo, we know. Those second kids. They're gangsters. So, yeah, I was working full time. I say I double dutched. I was working on the business At night. I would stay up to the point where it'd be 2 or 3 o'clock in the morning and my husband would wake up and get closed the laptop. So I literally was designing our website, taking photos of the product, doing the marketing, creating ducks, every aspect. Because it was just me. I couldn't afford to do any more than that, and so I wanted it to happen so badly that holiday. And I felt like I kept saying all the time ideas have expiration dates. I heard that quote somewhere and I just was like I have to get this out now. If I don't get this out now, it's not perfect, but it's not terrible. But if I don't get this out now, it's not going to happen. And so that's why I was so adamant about launching the business. And so, yeah, I was working full time, traveling for work and then working at night doing it A lot of time. The manufacturers are overseas. There were elements of it that made it make sense. I could manage it. And then my job. I got a promotion and work started to get busier and I realized, ok, eventually HR is going to see this in Oprah Magazine and call me in and go how are you managing your day job and this? And so I started to get more. I never talked about it at work. It just never came up. I never mentioned it. But when I got ready to leave, people were like you have a whole company. How have we not known this? And I was like I mean, it was out there, I just didn't talk about it to you guys. So it was one of those things where, once I got the promotion, I knew I couldn't focus on the business and do that, and so the workload was much larger and so I knew if I wanted to grow and scale the business, I had to leave and I had to work on the business full time. And I always say this because I think it's really important. I am grateful that I had a partner, a spouse, who encouraged me OK, you should quit your job and work on this full time. And he saw the opportunities and he saw where we could grow and how we could scale the business. But I also it's not lost on me that's not everybody's entrepreneurial story. There are people who are single entrepreneurs, so entrepreneurs they don't have a co-founder or a husband that's like, has insurance and is like what your job? Do it full time. We can work on one salary. So that's not lost on me that my story is not everyone's story or the norm, but it allowed me to grow and scale the business. So I'll stop rambling now.
Speaker 4:They say that's the best way to. You know, have the scenario like that is the best way to start a business, because I mean a lot of people I don't even think realize that when Jeff Bezos started Amazon, they were living off his wife's salary.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 4:She encouraged him.
Speaker 2:Which is why she got what she got when they got a divorce.
Speaker 4:And she encouraged him to do it.
Speaker 2:Well, I mean, there is immense privilege in that right. Especially, you have a family, you have children, you have another child, like as you're growing the business. Right, like, insurance is a big deal, having income is a big deal, so obviously that's really important. But I think one of the things that stuck with me that you just said was that ideas have expiration dates, and I think too many people have amazing ideas and really what sets people apart that have ideas are the people who just go for it. Right, like you were like I'm going to do this. It's not going to be perfect, I'm going to make mistakes, but I have to put it out in the world. And even with the podcast, right, like, if you listen to our episodes now versus our first 10 episodes, you will hear an immense difference. Right, but we were like we have something to say. We know this is going to be fun and exciting and people will want to listen. We're talking to our age group. Right, like the elder millennial, we're navigating life in a totally different way. Let's just go for it. And I think what's really exciting is that people who have been around and I'm sure you can attest to this from the very beginning see your growth and they see you getting better and they see you leveling up and they celebrate it with you. And the people who bought your first piece of wrapping paper off of that first palette are still supporting you to this day, I'm sure, and saying, wow, the quality has changed. There's more options now than before. Right, you said you started with two SKUs. I know you have way more than that now, and so I think there's something to be said for just going for it, understanding it's not going to be perfect, but you can't just let awesome ideas live in your head and die there too. You know, some of them deserve to be out in the world, I agree. So what happened with the two palettes of wrapping paper? Did you have a plan of where you were going to sell them? Was it like hey, neighborhood, you know? Like, look at this wrapping paper? Or what Hit them?
Speaker 4:door to door, like she did in your car Right. The Girl Scout cookies.
Speaker 2:So it was a plan for the palettes.
Speaker 1:So before the palettes arrived, I had samples. And this is a funny story, jessica, my neighbor. So we lived in a neighborhood that my neighbor behind me. It was a new development so there weren't a lot of trees. I put my Christmas tree up in July. We were taking promo shots with some of the products, right, so I could get ready. So my tree was up in July and she called me and she said are you? Okay, you're tree, I can see it through your window. And I was like, oh, I'm fine, I'm just, you know, working on a project. And I was like bye, so I had a mission to anybody. And then comes October, I had a sorority sister who, she's like an Emmy award winning producer, works in DC for a new station. She's amazing, an awesome storyteller. She created this about us video that really explained and told the story of how and why I was starting this business and the need for it, and I had my son in it. It showed the product and was done in such an amazing, magical way because she's a rock star that when we posted it online I don't want to say it went viral, but a lot of people saw it and shared it. Okay, and then they went to our website and started to buy and this is an early October, so from there it just kind of spiraled and we were shipping orders at night in our garage, like me, a card table, a laser printer and some tape and some boxes, and I did that every day. After work, my aunt would come over, cindy would come over and watch my son or help me pack, while my mom would watch my son and Sean would come home and we always just pack orders at night until we ran out of orders to fill or we were exhausted. And we just went to the store and then I was like, okay, black Friday's coming up, the first two days of orders were people I knew, and now I don't know any of these people and the orders are increasing and we're going to need some help and this is bigger than I can do in my garage. So we like, did like a quick tour of like four fulfillment companies in Raleigh, picked one, had a moving truck, take our pallets to the warehouse and then they shipped our stuff for the rest of the season. So we quickly realized we had to hire somebody to do that part of the business. And that was year one.
Speaker 4:So that seemed like it happened fast.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it did, it did happen fast.
Speaker 2:Can we talk about the numbers? We can't we talk about the numbers. What did you assuming and correct any of this if it's wrong assuming you were funding this yourself, right, all of the in the first two pallets, the website, everything was your harder and money. And then what did you make off of the first batch of orders?
Speaker 1:So the first batch of orders that first year we were a little under $100,000. And the orders we showed a profit, but it was like we self funded. So there were a lot of you know starting business expenses that were, you know, setting up your LLC legal contract fulfillment company. So there were a lot of first time fees that added up. And it was just me, so I wasn't taking on any salary, it was all the money was going right back into the business and so that was year one for us. So it was exciting to see this idea selling something online here. My phone go ding, ding, ding. That part was all super amazing and it was that year. It was their entrepreneurship is like this is amazing. Oh my God, what the hell am I doing? Oh my God, this is amazing. Oh my God, what the hell am I doing? So that point was all like you're too is what I was like oh my God, what the hell am I doing?
Speaker 2:I was like why did I quit my corporate job and my promotion and my benefits?
Speaker 1:to do this. I didn't quit my job really until 2020, before April, before the pandemic, I quit my job.
Speaker 2:Wow. So for three years or longer you were, I was double dutching. Double dutching that I wrote two children's books in one in 2020 and one in 2021. And I was running back and forth to the post office after work I was stuffing the book into the envelope. Same thing lays. When I got the laser printer, I felt like I had up leveled my life, okay.
Speaker 4:I would drop the kids off.
Speaker 2:I dropped the kids off and drop all packages and. I'd be like here, take these packages. I mean like the first, you know the first big batch. I remember taking like the beach wagon and filling up and you know, loading, unloading and going to the post office and oh my gosh, it's so exhausting and it is 100% not sustainable and I was nowhere near the level of shipments that you are doing. So I'm glad that you outsourced and realized very quickly that you needed to get some help because it is exhausting. And then same thing, doing the website, making sure that your inventory is correct. I mean trying to do social media. I mean it is, it's a billion jobs in one and it's so.
Speaker 1:Oh, it totally is I'm a firefighter today. Today I'm looking for freight. Today I'm trying to find a truck. I'm doing a palette. Tomorrow I'm doing cartons. Today I'm a photographer. Now I'm trying to do customer service. It is literally.
Speaker 2:It's all the baby.
Speaker 4:Yeah, you first start out, you were not every single hat.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and it's like you don't want anybody upset. You want everybody happy, you want everybody get their product on time and you want no one to call your baby ugly right, like that's what I was like. You want everybody happy, so it's like all of these emotions and you're all over the place. So getting ready customer service is probably the best highlight was when I was able to. Those people will drive you back crazy, okay.
Speaker 2:Yes, well, and you can't. You can't please everybody, right, even the best and biggest brands have complaints, and so that's not something that you can manage day in and day out. What do you feel like you wish you would have known sooner, in those early stages? Like if you could go back and hindsight, what would you have fixed or changed?
Speaker 1:Year two we took our fulfillment out of state. I would never do that again. Anybody is going to a director consumer business. You want to be, have your fulfillment. You're shipping the fulfillment. People were packing your orders for you. Your pickpocket ship your 3PL to be in your backyard. You'll be able to go, touch it, see it, check on it, confirm everything's okay. And that was a big learning for us. You don't know what you don't know and that was it almost was a detriment to the business. In year two, the company we hired was being acquired by another company in the midst of the holiday season and so our orders being packed by somebody we didn't even know or another company, and it was a nightmare. So that would be the first thing. Also, I would say this is a finance podcast, right. So having people in place and understanding you know all of the inner workings, the cost of it, what it's going to cost, adding some cushion in, those are all things that you need to start with good, sound fundamentals. I think your business operations are strong in the beginning. You can grow, sustain it, understanding you know if you're looking for fulfillment, if you're looking for a manufacturer, that they can grow in scale with you and that you have. The biggest thing I would say is after the pandemic is Either things you can't control there's like if there's a pandemic and there's no more plastic or you can't get cardboard, having backup manufacturers and factories and backup suppliers to help you when those challenges come up, and always looking ahead at what opportunities are there and can you sustain this, because it'll save you a lot of headaches later down the road.
Speaker 4:Would you say that I was benefit I assume I'm assuming the answer here, but I'm assuming that it would be it was very beneficial having your husband who kind of has the like the finance background to balance out your creativity. Because I know from like my brief experience of working with creatives is that, like they see an idea and it's like idea, idea, idea, and they sometimes have to be pulled back to like actually, you know, bring it to fruition.
Speaker 1:Yes, yes, he pulls it back a lot. I will get off a. Call me like. He's like how much is it gonna cost? Is that profitable? Are people buying that the? Are you sure? Have you done any research behind that? Like he was just slowly put a pin in my balloon and it was, but it's done very well. Okay, I don't want to say that he's the Grinch, he's not, but it's a good balance that we need and we have and I'm grateful for it. But it's definitely you don't. You don't need people that are going to be like yes, yes, yes, you need some people. They're going to say, no, slow down, are you sure? And that is what we do. We are to totally different personalities and going in business with your spouse can be large, it can be great, or it can be really, really bad. I have had to learn how and when to communicate with my co founder and what is the best time, because I wake up at six in the morning with 545, six in the morning and as soon as my feet hit the ground, I'm like you see that email, you check this? What about that? Have you thought about this? What do you think about that contract? You think we should do this or anything about these margins, and he's like I literally just rolled over, like why are we talking about this now? Than him, he wants to talk about it. 10 and 11 o'clock. We have done carpool homework, dinner talk that they're. I'm ready to go to sleep. So we've had to figure out how to communicate, when to communicate and what each other's communication styles are, and that has helped us a lot. That and you know, 13 years of marriage. I've known him over 20, so that there is how we made it work.
Speaker 2:That's a great call out for anybody in a relationship, though it's not. It's not what you're saying, it's how and when you're saying it. And I, brandon, says this all the time, like I'm like you, jackie, just like boom, boom, boom, rattle it off. But I also do that before bed because you know us moms, right, the mom brain of like the never ending to do list, I'm like, what about this? To be emailed the teacher? What about? And what about you know?
Speaker 4:and I'm ready to go to bed and he's like Hello.
Speaker 2:And yeah, and he's done so like, even though I have not changed my ways for that yet. Maybe one day I will.
Speaker 4:But it's such a good. I just have to tell him. I just ignore him like it's.
Speaker 2:It's it's time to go to bed yeah, and then I'll have to repeat it in the morning. Yeah, let's talk about all the success that you've had and the accolades. Oh, oprah magazine essence I feel like there was something about a Beyonce grant or fund at one point. That was at the beehive that you yeah, that wasn't even in your bio, but I see I know things. How do you feel about all the the excitement and the buzz and the people celebrating what you've done?
Speaker 1:Let's get into all that they are wonderful, it is exciting, but in entrepreneurship you're so focused on the next thing. A lot of times, if you ask entrepreneurs and has access, they can't even focus on the wins because they're too busy trying to put out a fire or the next thing, the next thing, the next thing, the next thing. It may not be like a press release or Beyonce, grant or Oprah, but it's just like but I got to this thing so I can keep going and keep growing it. But I will tell you the Oprah thing was so exciting. We were in the Oprah Magazine the December issue. We were not favorite things, but we got a phone call and Gail and Adam from O Magazine were kind enough to feature us and called us. It was Halloween night, 2017. I'll never forget it and I literally just like laid out in the floor yes, that Oprah Magazine and Gail King and Adam and Oprah knew about Clarence Paws and Oprah had our stuff at her house in Hawaii for Christmas. So that was super exciting. Oh my gosh, my son did understand it. It was so funny with the Beyonce one. It's like who's Oprah? Yeah, he was too young to even understand that one, but what Beyonce? He was old enough to understand and we were home alone and I, like, checked my email. I see this thing and I'm like reading it, I'm rereading it, I'm reading it again, and then I just started screaming and he's playing with his Nintendo Switch on the floor beside me and he's just like do, do, do, do, do. I'm like Beyonce knows about our brand. We got picked. Mommy got money from Beyonce, we had a grant, we're going to be on the Black Brick and he was like cool story, like can I have a snack? Like didn't I care.
Speaker 2:So I was like I'm so fast, it's not even. They keep us humble. They keep us, they do.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, he's kept me humble, but we've had some great opportunities the Beyonce grant we've got over $250,000 in grants. Fedex gave us a grant. Google Black Founders Fund we got $100,000 in non-diluted funding. What is this? Another one's? Iphone, women Boss, women Media We've just been really fortunate. There's a grant out there. I'm applying for it, and if there's some free money, I want all of it. I love that.
Speaker 4:I'm glad that you touched on that point because I feel like a lot of entrepreneurs don't actually think of that route for funding. So, entrepreneurs out there, there are grants out there that are available to you that you can apply for. That will obviously help with operation and stuff like that expenses.
Speaker 1:They will. And the hardest part about it is there's so many grants and I share them with people all the time. People don't want to sit down to do the work, and that's the hardest part of it is sitting down, typing up the grant, doing the applications, answering questions, meeting the deadline, recording that one minute 30-second video. They all want a different recording and that's where the work is. A lot of people don't want to do the work, but they want the money. So and I share them all the time when people are like, oh, you had an applied and have time, but you get all the money Well, I'm applying, I'm making the time. So if there's money there, some of it, I feel like it's drying up. There were a lot more during the pandemic, but there's still grants and opportunities out there. You just have to look for them and make the time, Are you?
Speaker 2:personally filling out all the applications, or have you?
Speaker 1:had a chance to hire a grant writer at this point. No, I have no grant writer and I am not. Listen, I don't enjoy writing. It is not my personal ministry. Ok, I don't enjoy it. But I do it. I've gotten better. I have learned how to tell my story what they're looking for, how to tell it in a way and I think it comes from even if you don't get them. There's a lot we've applied for that we do not get. We have been told though a lot, but I think the key is going back to some of these grants or applications after the fact and saying, hey, what's that out? What? Why was this a no? Can you give me feedback and understanding how to edit and adjust to help you get your story across in a unique way that the judges or whoever is looking at it can understand what and why and how, and they also know that you're going to be a good steward of the money?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think that's so important for anybody listening, asking for feedback, no matter what it is that you're doing find out why it was a no and then also recognizing that you still put yourself out there. They now know your name, they've looked over your things. A no right now doesn't mean a permanent no forever, because we've heard a ton of stories where it was a no in the moment and then some opportunity comes up and they're like oh, remember that person. We can now reach out to them and offer them X, y and Z. So you don't want to burn those bridges. You want to take the mature road and say what was it? Where could I have improved? What can I be doing better or thinking about for next time? So I think that's a really mature step that a lot of people miss, not only in their entrepreneurial journey, but also if you're applying to work at a corporation, like ask the recruiter, ask the hiring manager, where do you think I need to fill the gaps or level up, or what was it that gave you pause or isn't allowing me to move forward with this opportunity at this time? So I think that's wonderful that you're doing that and congratulations for the money that you have been able to get.
Speaker 4:And it's also just being able to take a step back and not getting your feelings and feel like they're attacking you personally.
Speaker 1:That's a hard part and, like I said earlier, nobody wants to hear their babies ugly, nobody wants to hear their business sucks. So you've got to get comfortable with that and everybody doesn't receive feedback. I have learned. Sometimes it's hard, sometimes it's really uncomfortable, sometimes it's like, oh, but you know, it's true, it's like, but what are you going to do about it? And do you really want to make this grow or do you want to just do what you're doing and have no success or not have any changes happen? So you have to be also willing and ready to receive the feedback when you ask for it.
Speaker 2:Yes, absolutely. Ok, I feel like you can tell me, but I feel like Target is like the holy grail of like where you want to be right Anybody who has a product. It's like get that product into Target and you are in Target.
Speaker 4:You can't tell she loves Target.
Speaker 2:I do love Target.
Speaker 1:The red dot boutique. Honey, I love it. I am. Yes, that's kind of when I feel like my kids. That was the blue check. For my children. That was when mommy's business was legit. Now, mind you, this was years after the business had been launched. We had great success. We had done some pretty cool stuff. Our product had been featured on ESPN's get up, like. We had some moments None of that mattered to my children, but when they could go in that store and see mommy's face and the product and our logo on the shelf, that made it very real to them and once again, they keep us humble. Ok, so that was the moment where my kids were like this is legit and they wanted to tell people about the business. But I'm like, well, why didn't y'all want to talk about this before? But yeah retail is amazing. Target's a great partner, but I will tell you this Retail is hard. It's hard as hell. And I think people see it and think, oh, once you get there, you've done it. No, once you get there, you have to actually sell the product and it has to leave the shelf because they want to know that not only can you have a cool product, do people want it and do they want to buy it and it's not going to be stuck in the back room. And there's so many moving parts of retail the cost making sure you have all your certifications, making sure your product has been tested, the cost to play insurance. There's so many moving parts and I think people see it and go, oh my gosh, you have arrived. But no, that's really just the beginning, because you've got to sell the product and I think people should look at it more as a marketing tool for your business as opposed to the end all be all, Because once it gets there, you still have to do the work to get people into stores to buy it. So, not to scare, but to just make people realize there's a lot of moving parts to getting retail, staying at retail and be profitable.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 4:I think a lot of things are way more complicated than most people think they are, because they see the nice little end result and they think that you know it's not. It must not be that difficult when in reality there's years of hardware.
Speaker 2:Let's what into years.
Speaker 4:Years of trying to understand the business and stuff of that nature.
Speaker 1:We talk to retailers years in advance before our product ever got on the shelf, and I think that's it. Instagram, social media, has made people think it is glorified and make it look sexy. And not to say it's not because there are sexy moments to it, but it's a lot of work and people think it's just an overnight thing and it's not.
Speaker 4:That's the thing that, like that's one of the reasons why we started the podcast is because I would always be talking to Jess about different finance things that I encounter with clients and everything like that, and she's like, oh, you should make that a social media post and I'm like I like the aspect of social media being able to get information out to the masses that they probably didn't have access to before. But then also I don't like the fact that they try to make everything, like I said, everything sexy and simplistic, in that one rule applies to everybody. I'm like that's not how finance works. That's why it's called personal finance. Like it's a lot more difficult than what people think and it's much more individual. And I need a longer format because most of the time when someone asks me a question, I'm like it depends. I got 10 questions, I got to ask you. So I like the fact that, like how you pointed that out, that like they just see the end result, and so much of social media is just like the positive, the pretty stuff that happens, and not the hard stuff that goes in behind the scenes.
Speaker 2:So true, so true. Well, everybody wants the quick win, right, everybody wants to take the elevator up to success. Nobody's willing to take the stairs. And when you actually dig in to stories like yours, jackie, you're schlepping up the stairs, right, and then you're going back down 10 stairs and then you're tumbling down the stairs and then you're going back up four more stairs and it's like that's the messy stuff that people don't want to learn about or invest in, because everybody's looking for that instant gratification, the quick win and, like the overnight success. And I mean we've read all the books and listened to all the podcasts and we know there's millions more out there where people are like oh yeah, my 20 year overnight success, right, you see the blip of the glamour and you didn't know the 20 years of grind that got me here, yes, you know so. So true. Yeah, talk to us about how you learned all of the things that you just mentioned about, for example, getting on the target shelves. Is there a course you can take? Is it just making all the mistakes and figuring it out on the back end? What does that look like?
Speaker 1:You mentioned courses. I would like to take this time to say there are a lot of people on the worldwide web selling courses and classes and, having done Everybody has a course. Everybody has a course Right. Be mindful. Sometimes you just got to do the work. They're telling you that they can. In six courses for seven easy payments.
Speaker 2:You choose 999.
Speaker 1:Like, be mindful of these courses people. I didn't pay for any courses workshops. It's not about going to a women's empowerment conference. Those are great, but you can go listen to a thousand speakers. You still have to do the work. For us and for me, it was a lot of. My background was in CPG, consumer packaged goods. I had worked at Nestle and Mars Wrigley for over 13 years of both companies and not the same time. But I was a account manager and so I called on even though people are doing that now, a lot of people work at two jobs, two different companies but I was a retail account manager. I called on large stores and small stores and I went in and I sold to their corporate buyers and when you would go in and buy a candy at the store there was a promotion or sale, it was because I had sold it at the corporate level and so I did that for a long time and so I understood how buyers work, understood how product got from our warehouse to their warehouse on the freight on the truck, the orders of forecasting, just the cost to do business, the shelf, the sliding all out, all out allotment excuse me New item forms, how to set it up, how items get deleted, nielsen, ari, scan, tron data, iri, excuse me and all the scan data. So all of that was very helpful with helping me with understanding the business side, the retail side of the business, even though we didn't start there. It helped me understand like the product, the descriptions, all how it needs to be on the site. So a lot of my background there translated really well, but there were still parts of it. You don't know what you don't know. So, but yeah, that definitely gave me a heads up.
Speaker 4:So what I hear there is like you took the skills from your, you know, quote, unquote nine to five and applied them to your side hustle, which obviously became what it is today.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 4:That's why I would say, like, when people are starting a side hustle like what are you currently good at? Like what skills within your current job can you apply outside of that to create a side hustle that's going to you know it becomes profitable. It makes it's the easiest to meet. People want to start things that are like completely like. They have no you know type of like backgrounded and whatsoever and had no understanding. I'm like cool, you can do that. But it's going to be a much larger learning curve.
Speaker 1:Yes, for certain.
Speaker 2:What is next for green top? You've added SKUs, you're no longer just. I don't want to say just, but you know you are building out all of the things available under green top. So what is next? And I want to know where did the the name green top gifts come from?
Speaker 1:Okay, I'll come to that one second because that's easy. Good, there was next for us, as we are expanding our licensed products with the NFL PA. We are also in target for the holiday season on targetcom with our family pajamas. We have wrap and new bags on targetcom so you can check those out. We even have pet bandanas to the whole family. We have plus size, big and tall baby, infant, toddler, women and men. We got everybody covered.
Speaker 4:Yeah, we are five this year. I know that.
Speaker 1:This can we have on our website. The hat you can buy is on our website and it comes in a khaki and black and it has clearance claws on it Green top the way we came about the name. Green top is my grandfather. My parents are old, okay, my grandfather had a restaurant bar in the forties called green top and it was a source of celebration in our community and it was my family's, I would say, first start in entrepreneurship. So, paying homage to them and to my dad and my grandfather because it was my grandfather's restaurant but my dad's shine shoes there as a kid and then he started to outsource and let somebody else on the shoes and he was split the money with them, but they use his Wow.
Speaker 4:So you just have a generation upon generation of entrepreneurs.
Speaker 1:I love it. I come from a long line of entrepreneurs. My dad did a lot of different entrepreneur things. He was a school photographer for over 40 years, he had residential real estate and he was just a jack of all trades and so I saw entrepreneurship very early from my father and all different ways he took me to you know the court when he was a victim people. He took me to city hall meetings when he was trying to get clearance and for new properties and buildings and so I feel like I got to see it firsthand, up and close, all the moving inner working pieces Good and bad and stressing and things and seeing him at night before he go to bed right down in his to-do list for the next day to get it all brained up, to get all of his head. So that is how we came from the name green top.
Speaker 2:I love that. I love that you set a source of celebration for our community, because I feel like that's exactly what you've done with clearance clause. Also, shout out I don't know if other people do this, but I started it when we had contracts. We had kids. Both kids get their own wrapping paper, so I don't have to like label it with their name, right, like they know. You know I'll say like, roman, this is your wrapping and Aston, this is your wrapping. But I love that you have matching bags with the wrapping paper so everything coordinates, which I think obviously is super intentional. But for people who wrap in the holidays, like I do, it makes it even easier because some of those things I'm not wrapping in paper it's just too much, too many angles and bumps and you know all the trucks and things. I'm not doing it. So that is going to go in a bag, but it can still all coordinate, which I absolutely love and shout out to you. But when I was looking at the jammies online, girl, you about to sell out, so I'm going to need them to restock, Okay, thanks.
Speaker 1:All right, yes.
Speaker 2:Yes, so that's good. I was like I'm going to say like for some people that maybe are listening and don't you know kind of have a full understanding of why we are embracing.
Speaker 4:this is because representation is so meaningful and if you're part of a demographic that's always been represented, you don't quite, you don't really get it because it's been always seen yourself, you know, growing up you know I didn't see myself or anyone that looked like me, and you know Christmas stuff, you know cartoons on TV books that we would read, tv shows we would watch. So like to be able to see yourself represented. I can't even like begin to explain how amazing that is. So, for example, like I remember getting into watching tennis when Venus and Serena started playing, because nobody else really looked like us that played tennis, and what was really kind of like full circle for us is that we were watching with our son and our daughter watching Cocoa Golf when the US Open and then, probably a few days later, our son, you know, just turned four. A few days later he saw her on a commercial that she had and he was like Cocoa Golf. I was like you remember her name, everything like that, and like I don't think he didn't, I don't think he would have that same connection if she had been a different you know race. So like being able to see yourself. It's just. I think I said I'm rambling, but like it's just amazing.
Speaker 1:No, I think you said it well, I always tell people you can't be what you can't see, and it's so important for children to see at an early age is so important for children to see diverse images and see images that look like them and hair textures, skin hair texture, skin color, eyes gaps in the teeth, freckles, all different things. Kids can connect with it and relate. And I think it's also important for children to see other images and other people with different skin tones and vitilogal if they have a job, if they wear glasses, if they have freckles, because unless you have a better understanding and appreciation for someone else and you can empathize and understand, it's not something that's foreign to you. We first started the business. One of my neighbors was like I don't, you know, I never really noticed and I was like, well, go home and look at your children's books and let me know about the diversity you see in your books. The next day she was like all her books have white kids in them and I was like I know, and so for me it's so important for our kids to see it. I'm so like you said, I'm so intentional about the books that they read the television shows they watch, the movies they watch, to make sure they see that representation and I think we've come a long way and you're seeing it more in you know television and film, but there's always so much more room and opportunity there to make sure kids can see oh, that family looks like my family, oh, they have diversity, you know. Oh, the mom is this, the dad is this, and or they're two dads or two moms. Whatever it is, they can connect and relate to it and so we put a lot of thought behind our product to make sure our kids can. They may not say I look identical to that character, but they can relate and connect with something on one of those characters and their personal attributes.
Speaker 4:Yeah, and the end goal is that we get to a point where that's just the norm. Like that's, the end goal is where we get to the point where this is just the norm, where you see all different types of people represented and you don't even think about it because it's just common. Yeah, it's not, or we're no longer we're not there and to really like also emphasize this is not about, you know, being exclusive of white people. This is not that. No right this is embracing and being inclusive.
Speaker 2:Yeah, exactly, exactly. All right, jackie, we always like to leave our listeners with one final thought. It can be anything, it can be inspirational, it can be a lesson learned, you can take it in whatever direction you want to, but what would you like our listeners to know, or what would you like to leave them with today?
Speaker 1:I would say that entrepreneurship is really hard. It is very rewarding and if you require someone to cheer you on on it, every aspect of the way is probably not for you. But you need to find community and find other like-minded entrepreneurs that may not be in your field that you can connect with and bounce ideas off of, and I think that's been really key. For me is building your own little entrepreneurship community, and I think that's probably my biggest takeaway.
Speaker 2:Great call out. Thank you for being with us today. Thank you so much.
Speaker 1:Thanks for having me, this was fun.
Speaker 2:Don't forget. Benjamin Franklin said an investment in knowledge pays the best interest. You just got paid Until next time. Thanks for listening to today's episode. We are so glad to have you as part of our Sugar Daddy community. If you learned something today, please remember to subscribe, rate, review and share this episode with your friends, family and extended network. Don't forget to connect with us on social media at the Sugar Daddy podcast. You can also email us your questions you want us to answer for our past the sugar segments at thesugardaddypodcastatgmailcom, or leave us a voicemail through our Instagram.
